If you are going to wait for an office complex to show up at least plant some corn or put some livestock over there.

We should try and get light manufacturing or assembly. R&D would also be good. There is already too much generic office space.

A mix of office & small retail stores (not big box) can work well-

I think it's a great compromise and a wonderful CYA by the town govnm't. It basically doesn't effect them at all and puts the decision (and blame) in someone else's hands. Well played!

A mix of office (which includes R&D) and small retail was always a part of the original OP200 zoning before the ordinance 1684 (now rescinded) was voted into effect by 4 council members and the ex-mayor. there was a very genuine discussion at the meeting last night on how to move forward with the town's vision. also brought up, by mayor Laforette, were concerns that Sharp could be quickly sold and torn down and that an appeal could be made for 'contiguous zoning' there (an additional 50 acres) should the Crossroads developers win their battle. the entire evening did not at all strike me as a political hand being played (i was there).

thanks jessica for attending and posting quickly as always!

Hey people, maybe we can build another Ford plant there. After all, it would still be there if bad times had not closed it down in the 80's. What would you be saying about that site then? People don't seem to think about what they could be dealing with were the past slightly changed. You all ought to be thankful (very thankful) there's just a mall planned for there and an existing hotel there now. I'm happy to see that the current plans are proceeding full speed ahead for the lifestyle center (I've been asked by the supporters to try not to call it a mall anymore).

BTW, I don't see an office complex solving any potential traffic problems Gottardo. As a matter of fact, it was analyzed to potentially create more traffic then a mall wasn't it? You going to oppose an office complex based on traffic too? Or you just going to let that little issue slide because, well, it's not a mall is it?

Are they still building office complexes?
I thought they were on the way out.

Their will be less traffic as offices will be closed on weekends and end at 5:00pm. The traffic will only be the people working in the offices, not more and more people coming the whole weekend long, I say the more office the better.

I would like to see an office complex go in. This would create jobs for those in need. I am one of those people trying to find an job. By putting office space would open alot of doors for people who need jobs.

Thank you planning board for making the recommendation for office space on the crossroads property!! I agree with you 100% and would like to see that happen. Let's keep Mahwah "Bergen County's Parkland". NO MALL IN MAHWAH

JP
1) you never answered my questions to your cynical smarty-pants remarks about the town government that you usually have so much respect for.
2) for a guy always clamouring for "the facts" that's some pretty shabby heresay about a phantom office-park-traffic report... could you produce that for us?
3) you are a pretty unlikely spokesperson for us guys on this side of the river. i've walked thru many floods here in water above my stomach to get back to my landlocked, but fortunately only basement flooded, home. Don't use us for your politics.
4) for a guy with such a big mouth you should find out just how comprehensive the original zoning was... sure it needed to be tweaked; it's just the megamall concept that sucks. in fact, the Tice Corners you love to fraudulently compare this monstrosity too also came up at the meeting last night. it was asked how that type of devlopment can occur when & if the megamall doesn't. fortunately Tice would probably fit into the broad language of "office with limited retail" of the original OP200 zoning, as well as medical and dental facilities and more. Unlike Omerta, or Megamall", "Office with Limited Retail and Medical Facilities" can mean a lot... in facty simply "Office" can mean many good things.

Thank you Andy Schmidt, i am always appreciative of your insightful and thoroughly factual remarks!

I for one am so very happy the planning board is taking the vote in November to heart and is listening to the Mahwah residents that voted no mall. Thank goodness Mahwah residents had a vote in November and the planning board is listening. Unlike the council of last year on March 31st.

JP
man you are all over the place with these comments... i'm a little worried about you with the swinging pendulums and chants (aka talking to yourself out loud if you're the only one chanting), noone thinking or thankful enough (except you), ford plant dibs, the tired old Native American Casino scare tactic, more phantom office traffic, holding pools that can contain the flooding in west mahwah (really mr. army corp engineer, those pools will be lucky to catch just the greasy water off the malls pavement, at best), and again the so called "stated facts". what's "fact" is empirical knowledge JP; if it's just 'stated' then we call it heresay, or in our more colloquial vernacular: Bull Sh-it. seriously man, take a step back!

David Haas
R&D was also mentioned for the possible new language of the Master Plan... the planning board has an evolving vision for a variety of worthy uses for this land... and let's not forget that if the Crossroads Developers win their lawsuit and Sharp Electronics is ripped down one day, then we are going to have 50 acres of land arguing in court that the only thing you can build next to a huge Mall is more Mall! This is another compelling reason why we all need to attend the next, and every, Planning Board Meeting!

Due to the fragile environmental conditions with the confluence of the Ramapo River and Mahwah River development on this property should be severly restricted if not denied due to environmental reasons. Some of these are the condition of the property and potential hazardous waste from Ford Motor Co. as well as the severe flooding conditions that would be caused by the run-off due to impervious cover.

Looks like the planning board is making the right decisions, not going forward with the mall, just based on the votes here on the patch more people would rather see office or medical buildings rather then retail. Just like the vote showed in November, Mahwah residents do not want a mall, again Mahwah residents have spoken and are 100% behind the planning boards decision not to build a mall..

What is wrong with the site? If you take 287 across to 95 in CT or up 684 there are huge mega office complexes that were built in the last 10 years but 20 miles on this side of the Hudson to Mahwah the space is there but no one wants to bulld.

I'd like to think that we were more open minded when it comes to finding a potential solution for Crossroads dilema. Look at the choices which are presented to us. Offices, Medical, Retail and Rec. Some fair and some not so. Without a clear understanding of the zoning laws, I'm just going to put this out for consideration....... just a thought.....Bergen County has an oppertunity to venture out and do something that can benefit most. We all strive to better our lives in one way shape or form especially when it comes to food made available to us. Does anyone remember what a real tomato tastes like or a real steak. Lets consider using a postion of this land to establish real vegitation, fruit, grass fed livestock ect. To think that we lack Malls is just plain old delusional....sorry. There's more to life than this. We all know the same entities that dictate the tainted food supply and resulting detrimental side effects are the same groups offering us medical solutions with even greater side effects. Lets at least consider bringing back farming in some capacity and find a way to make it profitable without being greedy so that we can all benefit. Take control Bergen and take the time to think about what really matters to us.

JP, I understand what you are saying, yes their will be more people on the road trying to get to work, this is true. Only for a little bit each day, this is to be expected and the weekends will only have empty office buildings, which I personally think is great. No traffic on the weekends. A mall will have traffic all day long and especially on the weekends. I would much rather have to deal with more cars on the road in the morning and evenings, for only a short period of time, then to have to deal with a mall that opens at 10:00am and closes at 9:00pm Monday through Saturday. JP in your rush hour statement you are only have more cars on the road from 7:30am to 9:00am and 4:30pm and 6:00pm, the worse case scenario is an hour and a half in the morning and an hour and a half in the evening, this is a total of 3 hours per day. This is a very small price to pay for office buildings rather then the traffic a mall will bring.

again can someone tell me why the land has been vacant for over 25 years?
The whole McArthur Blvd is full of offices. They even built in an inconvenient location on Darlington/McArthur. Stryker filled in along 17. But Crossroads seems to be a very undesirable location for offices. Why?

This decision shows that the Planning Board does not have the ability to determine what is best for the Township. For anyone to suggest new office space to be built is laughable. If that suggestion came from the Planner then I suggest we need to get a new planner. NJ has had too much office space for decades at this point. If office space was a necessity, why would the property owner want to build retail? If there was a market for office space, I think the property owner would want to benefit from it. The only logical comment made in the article was the need of indoor recreational space. The problem with that is that the owner of the property would have to find a tenant that would want to build and operate such a facility. The most recent recreational facility built around here is the complex in Waldwick with the Superdome. This facility was built by the land owner. As for medical office space, take a look at the new building on Franklin Tpke next to Don Bosco. This building is still not fully occupied. Just for the record, I'm not sure the retail plan was the best fit for that site either but I do think that the property owner is the best person to decide what uses there are actually a need for.

Andy, thank you for always fleshing the bones of absolutism with such exactitude and poise.

Andy, I agree that the property owner is seeking profit and retail is always going to fetch higher profits but if it comes down to need. Office space throughout NJ is overbuilt and has vacancy rates of 16% across the state. This has been consistent for many, many years. I know that if I was going to build a commercial property, my first choice would not be office space. As for your retail vacancy argument, I understand that there is a decent amount of space available on Route 17 but it has been filling in, also showing need. I also understand that Borders is vacant but you might have missed the brand new building constructed next door to it which is already leased. Plus, you or I are not in on the negotiations for the Borders space so we can't say why it's not occupied yet. We don't know if they're currently negotiating the space for one tenant or multiple tenants or that they have agreements in place and the future tenants are having architects draw up sketches of the space they will be using. I would have to agree that I like the Data Center possibility but that is not considered office space. Data Centers are a very hot property type and have become their own category. And just to touch on your last point, I suggest you take a drive up and down MacArthur and note that there is plenty of vacant office space which has been available for a long time. Including the building directly across from the NYSE building.

Resident that's a weak argument because once again we are not privy to details. I didn't know you were involved in he Borders negotiations, do you work for Welco? And let's see, retail space doesn't offer jobs? That's funny, who are all those people that work in all the different stores I go into? There is plenty of vacant office space in Mahwah that can be used including the existing building in the crossroads. Let's not be shortsighted just because you don't wan retail. Like I said earlier, I don't think that site is right for retail but office space is not the answer.

MR, JP, CP/TP, these are all fair remarks about dynamic situations... however, a planning board's elected duty still remains articulating and implementing a certain long-term vision model for our town, which is exactly what they are doing.

Like I said before GD, it was a brilliant move by the planning board to garner the opponent's support because nothing really changes and they get none of the blame if the project proceeds to the building stage. They can still move ahead with the center based on the zoning in effect last summer, and if the mall owners decide not to go ahead on their own then the existing zoning doesn't have to change because it's already been changed back by the town council in September. Essentially the board has it's cake and eats it too. They are just restating the current existing zoning, and they can't be blamed for letting the center go through because the developer was granted zoning changes already and have met their requirements on submittal day. All I see this decision being is a "keep everybody dumb and happy now" type of move. It in no way prevents the center from still being built and if you read the thread closely, the future master plan is only a recommendation. It is not written in stone and can be rejected (which the planning board knows very well). Kudos planning board!

It looked to me like they were just doing their job. the planning board had not one atom of complicity in the zoning change at crossroads. as i see it, they have no need to make calculated political moves and my feeling is they're just trying to get things right... but then again, we are not as shrewd as you, smarty-pants; you know what the council is up to even without seeing or hearing them.