Astounding how short-sited some people are. If this mall is built, it will severely impact the livelihood of all of our residents and neighbors.

I don't think it's necessarily that people are short-sighted, but I do think there's an education deficit. If folks better understood more about how this entire debacle was mis-handled, they'd be asking more questions. Plus, I believe if they were educated on the plan and the likely effects it would have in terms of environmental degradation, including increased flooding, traffic and crime on those of us who live here long after the mall goes dark and the developer has moved on, the numbers would be closer to 4 or 5 to 1.

First of all our kids need jobs and the baby boomers are going to need some extra $$ to be able to live in Mahwah when retired

Costco pays very well for a retail chain
Cashier: $8 to $15.50 per hour; Stocker: $9 to $20 per hour; Food Service: $9 to $16.50 per hour; Butcher: $10 to $25 per hour; Cake Decorator: $9.50 to $18.50 per hour; Truck Driver: $11.50 to $22.50 per hour; Wholesale and Manufacturing Sales Representative: $11 to $25 per hour; Pharmacy Technician: $11.50 to $21 per hour; Optician: $11 to $26 per hour; Warehouse Supervisor: $14 to $26.50 per hour; Front End Supervisor: $13 to $29 per hour.

All the mall has to do is build an exit with a large enough arterial road that will take all traffic off the hi way and into the mall. I'm pretty sure they know how to do that.

I don't understand why there would be traffic anyway. There are 6,000 students at Ramapo....how come 17 is not backed up every morning and evening with college students?
I don't think it most of Mahwah will even know a mall is there.

"the mall will be the size of IKEA in Paramus"
That's not even a mall
that's a" couple of stores"!
all this effort and signatures to stop a "couple of stores?'
someone please explain to me why 2,200 people signed a petition
to stop an IKEA sized "mall"
were they informed it is only 2 stores?

Apparently, regular flooding, air, light, water and noise pollution and incessant traffic jams on Rt 17, Rt 202 and Franklin turnpike, and cars speeding down residential side streets to beat that traffic are "Beautiful" so long as it is not in your back yard or your street and your children that have to dodge the cars or breathe the air or climb to the scond floor of the house to avoid the flood water or close all the doors windows to sleep because of the traffic noise, or yell to speak to someone sitting next to you in your own back yard to be heard over the noise of the traffic.......yea sure sounds "Beautiful" from the other side of town doesn't it....

Kind of strange. I log on vote it shows 666 votes. By time my vote is processed it is up to 677. Out of curiosity I log back off and the not 10 seconds later 689 votes. All the new votes are "no" votes. I would take it that this is the most unscientific of poles. Not very cool to manipulate opinion poles - whoever is doing it.

now 740 votes. Hopefully the election is not so corrupted. Unless this is like American Idol and you can vote up to 10 times for your favorite. I am not voting yes but I am embarrassed by the person who is manipulating it to no.

now 805 votes with every new one going NO - in the matter of minutes!

7 minutes and and a 139 no votes - or 20% of the total votes for the day in just minutes. Totally a fraudulent pole.

Dave we are talking about 2 stores
one that pays quite well
look at the map
I would like the new signs to read

"stop the 2 stores and movie theater"

Pete,
Please get more informed before you take a position and cast your vote. I am very informed as I share a property line with the location in question. If you believe it is only 2 stores you have not taken the time to gather all the true facts. Unfortunately most people will be like you and believe the developers propaganda and vote acordingly. Too bad for Mahwah if that is the case as when all is said and done the uninformed will saddle the unwilling with the unwanted and Mahwah will be unable to reverse the damage.

Timothy,

It is not the "Business developement" per se that will adversely affect the flooding situation, it is the site developement. Currently the majority of the site is porous and developement in the proposed fashion will cover a large portion of the site with non-porous surfaces creating more runoff of rain water which will be carrying all the elements related to the activities taking place at the site. There are many polutants associated with parking lot runoff all of which are very detrimental to our aquifer which is located directly beneath the site. The excess runoff will exacerbate the current runoff in an already flood prone area. Twenty years ago the Ramapo river would leave its banks once or twice every few years and then not my much. The last few years the Ramapo regularly goes beyond its banks several times a year. More developement up river and in the surrounding area has increased the amount of runoff in the region. The convergence of the Mahwah and Ramapo rivers along with Masonicus brook etcetera makes this particular location prone to trouble more and more frequently and the developement of this particular site directly atop the primary water source for Mahwah's drinking water requires our elected officials and we as concerned residents to be vigilant to protect our neighbors, fellow residents and all future residents of the Township of Mahwah.

I hope this helps you understand why some of us have become so very passionate about this particular issue. Thank you for asking for insight as to why.

Dave
tell me how many stores then
and will it be bigger than IKEA in Paramus

I got a stop the mall brochure on Mahwah day and it showed a picture of the mall and across from it 4 lanes of stopped traffic.
I am starting to thing the stop the mall people are misinformed. This is a pretty dinky mall as malls go. Look at the picture on top of this page. I see plenty of room for drainage. You just have to make sure the town planners take into consideration your flooding fears etc . You don't have to kill the whole mall. Mahwah is a tough town when it comes to building things. Don't worry.

This is a stupid idea. Have any of the planners actually driven route 17 north where 287 intersects. On a Friday night in the summer this road becomes so congested. Adding a mall there will turn the traffic into a nightmare. It's bad enough that the traffic causes problems in Suffern because people decide to take old route 17. Drive this for a few weeks in the summer then come back with your bright ideas.

It's a bad location and no alternative traffic plan. This is as just as thought out as the original 287 merge where no investigation was done on traffic patterns. The road should have connected from the right of 17 not the left. I will vote against this. If you want to build 2 stores in mahwah I can think of 100 other, much better, locations. This location is based on the fact that they know a huge box store will draw in the Hasidic traffic that heads north in the summer. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

Pmike, please list the 100 better locations in Mahwah that you referred to. I think it's in the perfect location. What do the candidates think? Have they given their thoughts as to where it should be located?

Andy I am just going by the second paragraph in this article and the map in this article
I'm just calling it as I see it
If there is more then I'm wrong ...someone enlighten me
Right now I don't buy the traffic hysteria..someone show me some traffic projections
A decent paying store like Costco would be good for the town
and finally that area is not the rainforest its the packed down remains of the Ford Plant.. I'm not buying the flooding,aquifer.quality of life.
People that live adjacent to that area know that it is inevitable for developement .
I know they like it the way it is.
I had the same thing when the 50 acres behind my house all of a sudden got a "name". I tried "wetlands", "buffer zone", "traffic" and my big card was "poor access for fire trucks if a tree falls down"
You gotta try. Again I wasn't born yesterday.
This whole "Stop the Mall" is much to do about nothing
but I think they will win out in the end

sure no problem
here's the deal
a big argument against was retail was poor paying jobs
I posted Costco's salaries
not too shabby

What I want is for the Stop the Mall People to convince me with facts about why the mall should not be built
not buzzwords like "traffic" or statements that start out "wait til you see..."

The builder was said it was the size of IKEA in Paramus
that' a very small mall
ok
maybe we can figure this out

does anyone know how many parking spaces are proposed at the mall?

I think one thing everyone here has missed is when the employees of Sharp complain about trying to get work Sharp will move their shop here to a southern state. This will result in Sharp selling the property to this mall going in and that area will also become a mall and that is when the problems will double. More Trafic, service calls, flooding and motorists using my street as a short cut to 202 to get into New York. Or the builder already has in mind an amount they will offer Sharp to buy the property and they knew along how big they really wanted it. This I feel is a bad idea. When it happens I will get no satisfaction in being right because it means nothing, the mall is there at that point.

Rumor mill has it that Sharp is already contemplating or indeed has already decided to depart. Rumors only but....where there is smoke.....

I thought Sharp was mostly temps

The mall developer and the mall opposition seem to disagree on even the most basic facts - e.g., is it the size of Paramus Park, or IKEA - or is it not. And the experts then side with whomever paid them to side with them - so that doesn't help folks like me figure out what's real.

Add to that that the Patch is only showing a small fraction of the plan as the "opening" graphic for articles like this one.

I finally took the time and brought up satellite views of IKEA, Paramus Park and the Crossroads property side by side, scaled them to the SAME factor - and here is the result:

http://www.schmidt.as/Crossroads%20Comparison.jpg

Finally I have a visual sense of the scope of this project vis-a-vis existing places that I'm familiar with. People still have to make up their own mind if they think its beneficial to Mahwah or not - but at least it helps me settle some of the underlying facts that have been debated.

Pretty crazy
Good pictures
To me if its an IKEA size mall ...who cares
But there was this whole insane Stop The Mall with accusations about politicians
and petitions and passionate speeches. It seems including me, no one knows what the heck they are talking about! The Stop the Mall.com people have some splaining to do.

Joe I just read your post I may be in lala land (which is off of McArthur Blvd) but there are not" plenty of jobs" Everybody answers in cliches "signs in the windows"
and "monstrosity".
Can someone please be specific once in a while?
Coscto worker can make 60 grand if he plays his cards right read the salary list I supplied.

The traffic is the big issue I have with this mall which will result in delayed response times for service calls from the police dept, fire and ambulance. Which is no fault of the responders. Traffic coming from New York to enter the mall is the first issue. StagHill is the only crossover going south that will lead directly to the mall. When that backs up it will push up to the 287 South and Rt 17 split which will result in major traffic mostly at peak hours and weekends. Anyone ever drive Rt 17 on Saturdays in Paramus? Not fun. New York has no obligation to New Jersey to change the lay out of their rounds and from what I have heard they will not. Fly over to 287 and 17 south will result in not being able to cross over to 17 South and NY traffic heading into NJ will not beable to get over to 287 South. When StagHill backs up every driver will head to 202, East Ramapo and McArthur Blvd to turn around and head North to get into the mall. This will result in back streets being flooded with cars not water which I also feel will rise in time. Higher then it has and faster. The second is traffic heading 17 North which backs up now to the Burger King on any given week day and more so on Fridays. This results now in motorists cutting through Burger King, the diner, TD Bank and the soon to be Honda dealership to access Island Rd to head north and eventually head down my street on Devine Dr to hit 202 and then out to Franklin Turnpike to go to NY. NY and NJ driver fly down my street.

That's a good point.
Does anyone know how the southbound or NY shoppers are supposed to enter the mall?
will there be a new crossover?

That's a good point.
Does anyone know how the southbound or NY shoppers are supposed to enter the mall?
will there be a new crossover?

At the meeings we were informed that the developer would not be making ANY improvements to the existing interchange. This is why you should go to the meetings and find out what is going on in YOUR town!!!! Before it is too late!!!!

Thanks for the info. .

I'm just being the devils advocate because I have no life.
I actually went into the crossroads today and the arterial roads are all 4 lanes they can hold a lot of traffic if needed.
That property is huge. I suggest if you do go to the meetings to go to the proposed
site too.
On the way back i realized that there is already a 4th lane to exit 202 for a u turn.
I went past Ramapo College at 4;30 there was no traffic on 2 lane 202

Question: There are 6000 students at Ramapo College and no traffic on 202
no traffic in the morning either.
I go past Interstate Shopping every day including Satiurday ....no traffic
What make you think this mall will back up to Burger king.
How do you determine that there will be monster traffic.
Can you tell me of a similar mall (Paramus does not count)
that has the traffic you describe?
If a school of 6,000 does not have a back up even on a 2 lane
How many shoppers will it take to back up a 6 lane hiway?

It does not make sense to me

Ted thank you for your response, On Friday night the traffic backs up to Burger King, I live on Devine Dr and see it trying to get home on 17 North. Pete Paramus counts it is there and there is traffic, why would it not count? The Chief disagrees and that is fine. I would love to sit down with him and speak about it. That is how we all make better decisions on issues. Ted maybe you have insight for me to help me. The service calls will go up for this dept. I always see no activity reported in the paper in the police section for Mahwah. Why? When residents have their service calls stacted so officers can respond to the mall then residents will be upset. As far as engineering degrees for the experts if they exited the office and actually looked at what they were deciding on before they put the idea on paper they would handle the problem in a different manner.That is what I along with many others want, handle it the right way. I do have experiance in regards to service calls, response time and traffic. The traffic issues I have pointed out are real. Ted try driving it yourself. Down 17 South to Staghill and Crossroads exit over 17 into the area to be the mall and let me know if that can handle the mall traffic. You may or may not be an expert yourself but common sense should tell you if something needs to be addressed more then something else does. I look forward to your thoughts on the matter.

Paramus does not count because its many malls adjacent to each other with millions of square feet and dozens of driveways.
This is an isolated mall and it says in the second paragraph "the size of IKEA in Paramus"
Whether the mall is there or not the traffic will be backed up to Burger King on Friday so what's the big deal?
and again
6000 Ramapo Students...no traffic on a 2 lane
Interstate Ramsey...no traffic
Kohl's...no traffic
But somehow this mall will produce mega back ups every day.
How can this be?

I appreciate your reply.
6000 students Ramapo College...no traffic
I was approached at the post office and again at Mahwah Day by people who wanted me to sign a petition. They talked a very good game of buzzwords like "traffic jams " traffic! traffic! traffic!....". And to me they are full of baloney. No facts just bs. And they got 2000 people to fall for it.I commend them.
Now I was a trucker for 32 years and have delivered to every mall in the metro area.
Every Macy's,Shop Rite, Pathmark,Costco, BJ's you name it and I've been there.
I don't know much, but I do know traffic.
No way daily massive tieups....aint gonna happen.... not off a 3 lane hiway.
You won't even know a mall is there

I live off MacArthur/Ridge with thousand of residents and employees and the "traffic" consists of 2 light changes maybe 3.
But the "mall" will be our worst nightmare..
Everyone says "traffic" and they can't back it up...they just know its a powerful word
I can back up "jobs"
I know people who live around there don't want it. I understand you like it the way it is. But In 28 years in Mahwah I've learned that everyone gets a chance to get screwed by the town. I got screwed 4 times so far.
I actually thought I was going to get flamed off the post.
But then no one is backing me up either.
I,m done.
But I hope we are friends
So from now on I'll be over at Winters pond walking a few dogs we'll talk about it there. Oh yeah I'll be over at the Homecoming Game too...I stand by the band side.
Pete

Joe Robertson,
The ad clearly states 20,000 more cars daily
20,000 parking spaces?
repeat your ad says line 1 :20,000 more cars daily
btw Palisade Center website says it has 9.700 parking places

your the people throwing major BS

15 mile radius: Paramus mega Mall,Riverdale mega mall,Harriman Mega Mall,Nanuet Mega mall, Palisades center mega mall
5 Mega malls in 15 mi

but somehow an additional 20,000 cars are going to drop everything and come to Mahwah daily!
please explain

that is what the ad in VD times clearly states
I'll walk some dogs now

First of all, you assume. Let me make this clear. I am NOT a member of the CSM, and have nothing to do with the ad or that organization other than to sign their petition. However, their ad is correct.

Perhaps you don't understand how shopping works. You do not park in a space for 12 hours to shop. You may go in, shop for a half hour, and leave. Then, someone else will take your parking space.

Secondly, the other mega-malls in NY State charge taxes on clothes. NJ doesn't.. so you will be getting people traveling over the Tappan Zee Bridge, and Rt 17 from Westchester and Orange County in New York state to the Mahwah mall to shop.

And by the way, it's "you're," which means "you are" not "your" which is possessive. Your lack of education is showing. Go walk your dogs.

Interstate and Kohl's sell clothes where's the NY mega traffic?...explain Prof. Joe
6000 Ramapo Students on a 2 lane rt 202 .... no traffic...enlighten me
huge mix of commercial/residential/Home Depot/ MacArthur/Ridge where's the doomsday traffic? speak to me o learned one

Check out video footage from the recent "Meet the Candidates" event held by the Mahwah Tea Party

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhyWXEU5IsE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL