Mahwah residents do support job creation - but the majority is against rezoning a property to create a windfall profit for a developer/speculator who bought that property KNOWING how it was originally zoned.

It's a shame that the township leaders first voted for the rezoning (while already knowing of the sizable opposition), then back-paddled in hopes to appease voters, but delayed rescinding just long enough to give the developer sufficient time to submit their plan, and after all that have the question on the ballot to make it seem like the residents have a voice.

Two lawsuits, a request for a declaratory judgements, if found in favor of Mahwah a certain third lawsuit (this time from the developer).

Sorry - but I fail to see anything "good" in how this entire matter was mis-managed by the "experienced" town leaders.

Give it up, JP. The people of Mahwah don't want the traffic nightmare.

I really don't have to give it up Joe, you do. The mall will be built no matter what the town does now. They met the requirements, they are legally in the clear, expect a very large lawsuit ( with OUR tax money paying for it ) if they are prevented from proceeding.

JP - you are correct.

Makes one wish that you could hold the "board members" liable for putting Mahwah into this entirely foreseeable situation, when they changed the zoning BEFORE the results of the referendum (which they placed on the ballot) could be considered.

Don't count your chickens just yet, JP. The fat lady hasn't sung yet.

The mall means bumper to bumper traffic, a shortage of volunteer fire and ambulance personnel, more crime, and a place for young people to deal drugs.

How about living in reality instead of imaginary for once Joe. Nothing like panicking over something before it even exists. Why don't we just go back 250 years move everyone out and become one big forest and meadow again. Better yet, maybe we'll get that casino we talked about.

I commute every day on Rt 17 and Rt 287, and I see first hand what a traffic nightmare it is during rush hour and on Friday evenings. That's not fantasy JP. A mall, adding 20,000 plus cars a day (yes, the developer's own numbers) is going to do nothing to alievate that situation.

Charlie, I suspect this center's tentacles go way beyond just Mahwah. The people may say no, but there are many others that will see this thing built. BTW, what was the count on the vote? Anyone know?

Don't forget, we have a Republican (ugh!) district who favor business.

Ok, so yeah, the vote was 51% against and 49% for the mall. Not exactly seeing that as a major landslide against the mall. Half the people want it.

JP: If those are indeed the final numbers, then you raise a great point. A non-binding referendum that comes out 51 - 49 is by no means the type of comfort that most folks would be looking for. I think that what such a tight outcome really shows is the volatility of this issue among voters in this town.

And Jonathan, we don't even know what the (probably) 12000 -15000 voting age residents who didn't vote on the mall want done with it. Obviously they don't care. Is that a for or against? When you think about it, only (approx) 10% of all the residents represent "Against" the mall. Maybe 17-20% of adults in town. (corrected)

JP: And thus we see the issue we face in trying to judge election results in this country. When we live in a nation where you have turnout of only 35% - 50% of eligible voters in national elections, and far less turnout in local elections, how can we ever say that "the people have spoken"? If we do the math, candidates are usually elected and ballot questions are decided by a vote from less than 25% of all eligible voters. Pretty sad if you ask me. Overall, the majority of Americans do not appreciate the privilege that our form of democratic government provides us is our rights to vote.

JP, I'm a Republican, and I favor business, but not at an inappropriate site that will cause a traffic nightmare. I also favor SMALL business, which is also why I'm against the mall. It will hurt our local mom and pop shops.

Nothing. You just ask more people to join. they don't even need to be from Mahwah.

Still dont see what that has to do with anything regarding the election or the mall

Thanks Mike Scott you are right. The volunteers will still respond the way we have for 97 years and counting. We continue to respond in a township that constantly is changing and growing. 97 years ago Mahwah was a farming community and the FD was founded in response to a large barn fire. Today we protect 26,000 residents, large commercial buildings that employ tens of thousands, high rises, large density populations in condo and apartment complexes, a data center that is responsible for a large part of the world’s equity markets, a college that is now bigger than a number of universities, numerous hotels, a major commuter line, sections of the town in a very active flood plain and the literal crossroads of two major roadways that have a long history of major accidents. We do this with a 100% volunteer effort. I am expressing no opinion on the zoning and I am not aware of any other member of the FD publicly coming out with an opinion. Our volunteerism is not about politics it is about serving with our neighbors for our neighbors. That being said if there are people truly concerned with the volunteers then I invite you to go to your nearest firehouse or ambulance building and volunteer – I did it and it was one of the most fulfilling decisions I have ever made.

JP: You don't ask people to join and volunteer to be an EMT or Firefighter. It's a dedicated group of individuals that do classes just to be certified AND then go on to do continuous education to stay up to date with protocol and safety standards. You can't just jump on an ambulance or a firetruck and be on your merry way. Also, these people that volunteer do it for THEIR town for the most part. I wouldn't volunteer in Allendale as I am a Mahwah resident.

Mike Scott: A shortage of volunteer personnel, being fire and ambulance is a big concern. A mall attracts people and people have medical issues and can get injured. Also a mall has increased traffic, which causes more accidents, that may need an ambulance and heavy rescue a FD service. Mahwah's FD and EMS responds enough for the town, but they also have to deal with the burden of Ramapo College (Besides Mahwah Ambulance services, Fuch's EMS, being a private company, responds there). That being said the two Mahwah ambulance corps combined have an average of 1500 medical emergencies a year for residents and workers so if you added the college there would be an even bigger volume. Also a mall, being a structure, has fire alarms that can go off for whatever reason that the FD has to respond to. Already these volunteer institutions are struggling for members and funding and a mall will push it over the edge.

What does that have to do with the mall? Do tell me.. who is going to answer a fire call at the mall? Who is going to answer a call every time someone gets injured, has a heart attack, etc at the mall?

JoeRobertson -the answer to your question is me and other volunteers who have answered the calls for almost 100 years. It is insulting to imply we would not. We answer the hundreds of false alarms to the college, hotels and many many other places of business in town. We understand the college has thousands of people, the businesses are occupied by thousands of people, some live in Mahwah most do not. It does not matter when someone asks for help we do not ask for ID or where they live. They are in our town and we try to help everyone just as we would like to be helped if we had an emergency somewhere else.

K Mills and everyone else:

I have read 100 times over how our emergency service would not be capable to respond to the new emergencies brought in by the mall. Are we saying that the town will not grow at all ever again. There will be no new business or homes built because we may stress the emergency services. Our department is more than capable and willing to respond to anything that may happen. As a member and current officer with the department im well aware of any problems that we have and none of those would get in the way of our emergency response to any of the township's emergencies. Please dont use our department as reason for or against the mall. If you want to know more about our department feel free to stop by and talk with the members.

K Mills, what do you mean you don't ask for volunteers?!? They have a sign up right now outside the Miller Road fire station asking for volunteers to join. Occasionally I also see a lighted sign on Franklin Tpk asking for EMT volunteers. You must be misinterpreting my post.

Jonathan, I'm not entirely sure what happened. Typically when someone deletes a comment, it will say "comment has been deleted" in the place where the comment once stood. I checked out moderation queue for flagged comments and there are none, so I am at a loss to explain why this might have happened.

Tom: Thanks for taking the time to look into it. I am not one of these "conspiracy" theorists so I will just have to cast it up to some sort of bug in Patch's technology. Given that the initial comment is gone and all the replies to it, I have to assume it has something to do with the initial comment. That is the only thing that makes sense.

I still find it interesting that when you click on my name and look at my profile to see comments I have made, it is showing that I had posted replies to this article that are no longer in this article. I also find it interesting that when you view this article on the Patch home page, it lists the number of comments to the article as including the deleted thread of posts. Yet, when you click on the article itself, the number of comments "resets" to be the actual number that currently appear.

Looks like a glitch in the Patch technology may be at play. No big deal. For the time being I am going to keep this in mind and be sure not to hit "reply" in order to post if I believe that the original comment could be deleted by the poster.

Tom, I know for a fact that this is NOT true.
I personally have sometimes posted a reply to a message, then re-read it and noticed a spelling or other error that I wanted to address. So I promptly deleted my own reply, and then pasted the corrected reply.
In NONE of these cases have I ever seen the note "comment has been deleted" appear in that message thread later? Consequently, I do NOT believe the "comment has been deleted" message originates from someone deleting their OWN message?

Like Jonathan I have also observed in three occasions over the past weeks where my replies disappeared after an "earlier" or "parent" message in that thread was either removed or "flagged as inappropriate" (I have no way of knowing which occurred).

So - I am convinced that you DO have a software problem in your message threading application that needs looking into. YOU may not be able to see those "lost" messages in your admin screens - you will need one of your programmers to scan your underlying database for these message threads and determine why certain messages no longer show up.

The entire system of commenting and flagging and all that goes with it is something we're talking about evolving, and I know our product people are working hard on it. When we were in our infancy and stories would get 2 or 3 comments the current system of a self-policing comment section worked, but now with stories getting 100+ comments and abuse of our flagging system occurring, we need to evolve it and we know that. But what's the right balance between encouraging dialogue and having strict controls? If you've seen the NorthJersey.com comments sections since they went to Facebook commenting only, you know that the number of comments they receive has plummeted. So striking that balance is important.

Tom - agreed it is entirely wrong to require people to sign up for another system (like Facebook) just to post comments. While I understand that Facebook is "in" or even additictive to many - I don't have time for those gimmicks - and certainly don't want to set an undesirable example for the kids who otherwise imitate their parents and might think everyone MUST have a Facebook account to survive in this world (when quite the opposite is true!)

Tom: Thanks. What is interesting, is that if you look at this article on the Patch home page it shows something like 39 comments. Yet, when you click on the article, it only comes up with 30. When I looked into the comments, I noticed what had happened. The initial post I (and others) had responded to was deleted, and all of our replies to it were then deleted as well.

I guess a question to ask of you is what happens if someone decides that they want to delete their post after someone replies to it? Can they do that? If so, then how could the replies remain if the initial post is deleted?

Dear Mr. Marcus, Just a thought here. This is the first time that I am aware of that we have bundled partisan and non-partisan ballots. Some people tend to vote party line and check all of the boxes straight down the line. We are clearly in a Republican town. The local winners of yesterday's elections were straight down this line. If 10% of yesterday's voters went simply down the Republican line that would have made the difference between Laforet and DaPuzzo. Is there any credence to this thought? Should we look to make these combined ballots laid out differently? What is the process for approving the ballot layouts? Your insight is much appreciated. Sincerely, -Bob Lockwood

Jonathan...what's interesting is that I've spoken to several people that didn't cast a vote on the Crossroads issue because they couldn't find it when they were in the booth. I have to admit it took me a minute to find it, too...the layout was a little confusing. I think that could explain some of the 244 vote difference....

Rick - my wife and I both got sample ballots in the mail ahead of time. It allowed us to consider the various county, state candidates ahead of time, check out any indepdents, and make up our minds on whatever ballot questions.

I'm surprised anyone would have a hard time finding it, after having looked at it for days?

Bob,

But if people would have just gone "down the line" to vote either Democrat or Republican (the first two columns) wouldn't the two COUNCIL candidates together have gotten the same 27 - 28% of the votes that the mall vote and the mayoral vote got?

If only 18% cast ANY council vote (vs. 27/28%) then this seems to go contrary to the thought that people just went down the ballot in the same column. If that were true, than the Independent candidates should have gotten a tremendous count - as they were in the same column as one of the mayoral candidates.

I see the difference between council and mayoral votes as a strong indicator, that people had a very good idea whom they wanted to vote for as mayor - and DID - but were less familar with the council candidates and thus dliberately skipped that line. It takes intent to do that - this was not "accidental" voting.

Bob: I agree with Andy's analysis above. While it certainly is possible that some voters simply "voted down the line", the empirical data we have indicates that Mahwah voters are not all "party line" voters. In fact, it shows the opposite.

Doing some rough number crunching again, if we assume that everyone who voted in yesterday's election cast a vote for mayor, that means that 5,922 residents voted. Of that number, 36% made a conscious decision to NOT vote for council (i.e. not just vote down a "party line" on the ballot). Thus, we have a very strong indicator that the Mahwah voter is not a "party-line"voter and certainly is not "dumb" or "uneducated" as one poster last night alleged.

@Andy...I didn't receive a sample ballot...I just chalked it up to budget cuts (not sure what mailing those to every household might cost...probably quite a bit). Checked in with the voters I spoke to earlier who were a bit confused by the layout and they didn't receive a sample, either. Having that ahead of time would have been helpful....

Rick - in that case you might want to check your voter registration with the county. Either the ballot was mistaken for junk mail - or you are not in their record.

Thank you for the actual numbers Jon, that's exactly what I was trying to imply. No one can even guess at the wants of those that didn't vote on the center development. If 73% don't care, then we might take that as an 86% (73%+13%) possibility of all eligible, can manage having it in our town.

Charlie, The stop the mall group should be cheered. If it wasn't for those residents who spent time and money to get the word out, this election would never have seen a mall question nor had such a good turnout of voters. I only hope they continue to be involved thru the rest of the process. This group is a true example of what community involvement is all about.

I love Bill's candy bowl also.

One thing we'll probably get back to in 2013 now that Bill is Mayor, is 2 day/week garbage collection once more and brown debris bags picked up again. Have to say that was kind of short sighted to stop those services for the relatively little money it saves the township.

Hi Bob,

but you do make the assumption that those 10% who voted party-line were ALL Republicans.

In reality, there would have been a split between traditional Democratic and Republican voters - which means, whichever candidate's name happened to appear in the "Democrat" column would have gotten his/her share of the "party-line boost" as well. So instead of a 10% difference - it would be more like a 2% difference: 6% going to Republican "mis" voters and 4% going to Democratic "mis"-voters.

Unless you are trying to infer something about the intellectual capacity based on party affiliation which, so that only voters of a certain party are prone to that mistake?

It's strange, we still have the same amount total amount of garbage. Aren't the garbage pickup people complaining about the amount of garbage loaded up on for one day? Don't the trucks fill up faster and need to be emptied more often? I have to store my garbage in the garage for 6 days. It's ridiculous.

Bill already knows that we DO want the mall.

I wish I had kept the sample ballot.
I'm curious:in which order did the two council candidates appear, and in which order the 3 mayoral candidates?
(My votes for county and state were all over the place - so I have no recollection how the Mahwah ones happened to be arranged.)

You can find an on-line copy of the ballot at https://www.facebook.com/whocares.nj.mahwah

This discussion is pathetic. Sounds a lot like the excuse Hermanson was giving last night to explain the trouncing his candidate took. People did not go into the voting booth to vote for a Mayor based on party line. Deluding yourself into thinking, after all of the turmoil created by this campaign, that voters just pushed party-line buttons is absurd. Time to face the realities:
1- People in Mahwah are fed up with politics as usual. Political party has very little to do with choices these days. Everyone is more in tune with the candidates, not the parties - as it should be.
2- The "machine" behind DaPuzzo failed to bring him victory. That's a message for the "machine" in the next election. Your days are numbered.
3- Further evidence of the clear choice of candidate voters made in this election is the failure of the "Anti-Mall" candidate to win. In fact, since there were almost 3000 votes against the Mall, slighly more than half of those voters selected the "Anti-Mall" Mayoral candidate, who came in third.
How about we stop making childish excuses and wasting time "analyzing" the results and admit that the voters of Mahwah came to the polls to deliver a message and elected a Mayor they can trust. TIME FOR A CHANGE!

Thanks! Following that line of thought, Steve and Lisa would have ended up with about 40% of those confused voters - however many there theoretically might have been - because those thought they were voting for a Democratic candidate.

And John would have only gotten the votes of any "confused Independents".

I certainly don't see any harm, if the county clerk would try to move "non-partisan" candidates totally "off to the side" in column 4, 5, 6, etc. to eliminate any question that people might have been confused (or think they live in Florida <G>).
I think it's a reasonable suggestion that's worth making to the right forum.

Arthur, that sentiment is way too "Tea Party" sounding. We are not going to have "mob rule" in this town everytime some residents don't like the decisions of their council.

I agree !!! The 1st project for our new government is to get rid of all the stipends that the town council and mayor get and are paid for by taxpayers. Secondly, investigate how Dawn DaPuzzo got her cushiony position when there was no advertisement in any newspaper !!! Also track down resumes of potential applicants which Im sure there will be none !!! If there is no proof of putting this position out to the public than this is downright curruption and should be addressed. Start weeding out the garbage and get this town back on the right track. If new government wont do this then maybe the state investigative bureau should take over

@Pamela MANN

Do you have any children, Pamela? Are they or have they been involved in a Mahwah sport? As recreation director, Mrs. DaPuzzo runs all of the town sports, events, Holiday celebrations, Fishing Derby, Parades, Paddle Days, field schedules, volunteer coaching staffs, and many other responsibilities. She orders all of the equipment for youth and adult sports and coordinates with DPW to ensure all of the fields are maintained and beautiful for citizens like YOU. In addition to her daily responsibilities, she is also in charge of Mahwah Day. Mahwah Day has become bigger and better every year since DaPuzzo has taken the position.

Dawn DaPuzzo's job was a mayoral appointment by Mayor Dick Martel. At the time of her appointment John DaPuzzo was not on the council or involved at any level where he could have had influence. She does not receive health benefits and receives $39,000 a year for her salary plus $2,500 a year for Mahwah Day. If you do not believe this, you can go over to town hall and request a copy of her paperwork because as a department head her salary is public knowledge.

So Pamela... if John DaPuzzo is the person you have a problem then you are in luck because he is no longer in office. But do not bring his wife into this. She is hardworking and does an incredible job running this town's recreation department. Talk to anyone who has had the pleasure of working with her.. she is great!

John DaPuzzo has worked tirelessly for the benefit of the town for many years, volunteering in the sports programs, on behalf of the Mahwah Schools foundation - and by serving countless hours weekdays and weekends on the council and committees.

You might not agree with his vision for Mahwah, or how he weighed fiscal benefits of the mall vs. other less-tangible criteria that were equally important to many residents - but his motivation was the same as yours: maintaining Mahwah as a great place to live.

I don't fault John DaPuzzo and the other council members for considering all facts and deciding that the mall was in the town's best interest - almost half of the voters agreed. (Even I had a hard time making a decision!) And I respect him for standing up for his decision - popular or not.

I DO believe the last half year was not the right way to handle the mall question - and as a result, the voters changed things up. But make no mistake - it was good to have John DaPuzzo as a smart and effective advocate of town matters in various positions over all these years and we are losing a great resource!

Just as much as it was wrong for DaPuzzo supporters to belittle Mr. Laforet's abilities - is it wrong for Pamela and others to besmear Mr. DaPuzzo's reputation!

Dear Mr. or Mrs. Leaking Ink, I re-listened to Bill's video answer to the mall question. I did not hear him say that he opposed to the mall. -Bob Lockwood

Ink, Bill is not against the mall. We just discussed that a couple weeks ago at his gas station. He just wants a lot more information on what is happening, but he is in no way against it. He needs the facts.

Those 20,000 new cars... need a lot of gas you know. ;)

JP:" those 20,000 new cars need gas"
I nominate best comeback line for 2011