Is the BOE afraid that the achievement record of most home schooled children exceeds that of the public schools? Check out the stats. Home schooled children are favored by colleges as much as those from private schools.

Yes, they are afraid of any change to their bloated, ineffective system. They want absolutely no competition to their expensive monopoly.

I feel the school is right, all kids must follow the same rules and standards and must go to the same school.

Why not have all the home schooled kids get together and find a field and play their sports, like we did when we were kids.

This sounds totally elitist and quite ridiculous.it's sports not rocket science! This will just make those schooled at home to feel separate and isolated from contact with other kids their age.

I think it is ridiculous to exclude homeschooled students. Parents homeschool for various reasons. Children should not be penalized for their parents beliefs. Even though their children are not attending the public school, parents are still paying school taxes. Home schooled children should be entitled to the same benefits as all public school students simply as a member of the community.

Parents of home schooled children have the option of letting their kids play on the town's rec teams. There are also club sports that they could join. The school teams should be reserved for the kids attending the actual school.

What an absolute crock of excrement!! Home-schooled kids don't require the same standards because it's a well known stat they largely excel in every area, whereas public school kids do not. Not to mention, the parents living in those towns pay the same taxes and should therefore be entitled to receive something for the money they pay to the town. There is NO valid reason to ban these children from playing school sports.

And how about this parent's comments:

...one Mahwah parent said at the meeting. “But usually, the area where they are lacking is the ability to interact with other kids in the community.”

This is some of the worst regurgitated propaganda from someone who obviously doesn't know what they're talking about whatsoever. It's a well known fact that home schooled children are MORE widely and better socialized specifically BECAUSE they aren't restricted to being in a school all day with hundreds of others their own age, being ordered around and verbally belittled by entitled adults who typically could care less about them. Instead, they are out and about in society with both children and adults of a wide variety of ages, in a wide variety of fields doing many different activities, instead of sitting in a boring classroom being lectured to or told to sit down and shut up. God forbid the free exchange of information and ideas take place. I suppose that would be a threat to the idea that only teachers should teach. If it wasn't so sad, it'd be laughable!!

I take no position on the athletics yes/athletics no decision matrix - I don't think it's important enough to warrant half the trouble. But I note that, despite all the whining about "public school elitism" in many of the comments here, part-and-parcel of the argument seems to be the proposition that home-schooled kids are smarter than their public school counterparts, or even 'better socialized.'

Whose 'elitism' ox is being gored here?

Lets put it this way, if the parents that home school their kids want their kids to play sports with kids that go to school, then send your kid to school, because the parents would be the first ones to cause problems with the school system if their kid gets hurt in a sport.

It has long been established parents can choose to send their kids to private schools, public schools or home school. There are pluses and minuses to each choice. Obviously public schools have made a huge difference in our country and every other country that provides education to all those willing. It is also true that public schools have specific programs for the millions of special need students that exist in our country. There are many students who struggle with physical, mental and learning disabilities of varying degrees. These students overcome a lot to achieve whatever level they can. Their scores on standardized tests are measured just like every other able bodied student. The argument that private and home schooled children score better is a misnomer. What would the comparison be to just public school kids with no special needs that would have qualified for a private school? There is no bad choice just the right choice for each family.

It's about being fair.

When high school kids are excluded for sports because they didn't get certain (measurable) grades, or because of behavioral incidents (their conduct on record), or because they didn't meet the academic target of attending certain courses (as documented) -- then you cannot give that spot to someone who did not prove that they qualify just because of some generalized notion that home-schooled children "*largely* excel in every area". Largely is not equal to EVERY.

The point is, what if THIS home-schooled child is NOT one of the "largely" group. What if that particular home-schooled child happens to be one that is just barely average in their personal talents and ability, struggles academically or may have some behavioral problem (which of course surfaces precisely when NOT under parental supervision). Would you concede that there MUST be SOME home school children who simply are unable to fulfill EVERY criteria, no matter how nurturing their parent teacher?

I am FOR using measurable benchmarks so that kids know their goals, so that they know that achieving one's goals can lead to rewewards.
Some parents exclude their children from those benchmarks - and that entails that they can't be entitled to the rewards of achieving these specific benchmarks (because they have NOT).

Is this just a sports issue? What if they want to be in the school play, or the Spanish Club, Art Club, etc.? If a kid goes to Don Bosco, but can't make the football team, should he be allowed to play at Mahwah because he lives in town?

I think that there's a lot of grey area here. I think you need to be in the school to be considered for school activities. There are many outlets for sports, including rec, club and travel teams.

Horrible decision... I have a hunch there will be a waste of tax-dollars fighting this decision including our court system. I always thought our role as parents and leaders of our town is to provide our children with the very best possible upbringing. But with the discrimination against home-schooled kids... everyone loses.

Oh by the way, I have connections to a family in Jacksonville, FL that home-schooled their children, and their youngest son was able to play sports along the way and he turned out ok. The kid grew up to become the national force known as Tim Tebow. Think about it...

That last paragraph is a gem..food for thought!!

James Norberto: The kid grew up to become the national force known as Tim Tebow. Think about it...

I am thinking about it, and struggling to understand the connection. No one, not even the school administrator who announced the schools' decision, is suggesting that home-schooled kids, whether participating in public school-based sports or not, wouldn't turn out ok. Is it your contention that because Tebow turned out to be a 'national force' (whatever THAT is), Mahwah's schools should establish policy?

But I do agree with your statement that this will ultimately be decided by a court, more's the pity. One can readily imagine the outraged parents, lawyers at their sides, standing up as one and shouting "I'll sue!"

But the idea that this is 'discrimination against home-schooled kids'? I don't see it.

This is wrong and discriminatory. The Board's rationales are pretextual - "where there's a will there's a way." Families of homeschooled children contribute to the school budget, and as such we shouldn't be excluded from participating in the school system's athletic programs. I have supported the schools in the past - even raised money for them, and made contributions. No more. In fact, I'd like to have my money back. And I will be sure to vote against each and every one of the system's board members going forward.

Andy Schmidt: see how easy it was to come up with a solution in a matter of minutes? As a homeschooling parent, I would competely endorse your suggestion. It's fair and reasonable. Why couldn't our Board of Ed do that??

Shame on the Board!! Selfish decision. Your punishing Mahwah home-schooled children. I'm sure there are Mahwah high school athletes who have not maintained grade average and are allowed to play. Behavioral code and conduct?? Home-schooled children are lacking the ability to interact with other kids in the community. I think our superintendent owes the parents of Mahwah home-schooled children an apology!!!!

You can't pick and choose which parts of the educational system you use if you CHOOSE to home-school your kids. If you want to use the school system, then use it. If you don't, then don't. End of discussion. Why wouldn't kids who go to private schools be eligible to play on the sports teams if home-school kids were allowed?

Why can't we opt in to certain aspects of the system? Many other states allow exactly this. After all, we're paying for the system with our tax dollars just like everybody else. Why should the system be responsive to the needs of our children too?

Allow me also to add how this decision also belies any true commitment to "diversity," despite the board's platitudes regarding that subject. For one way to really demonstrate such a commitment would be to allow homeschoolers to participate in school programs when sensible (like athletics), rather than preclude them. Really sends a loud and clear signal about how they feel about our town's homeschooled families - and a poor example for our children.

Mahwah should be able to come with a plan that the superintendent says she does not have in place so that home schooled children can play on sports teams. WE pay the taxes so they should have the time to put a plan in place.

The only limits on homeschool access to public school facilities should be those that are necessary for some compelling reason. I don't see how this argument can be made with respect to team sports. Again, many other states have found away to do this without any problems. This comes down to discrimination, plain and simple. And that's increasingly obvious from the tone of those here who support the board's decision.

outcome: I'll see you in court! Toning down the rhetoric, and not responding with name-calling and knee-jerk accusations of elitism(!), might allow reasonable voices like Andy's to meet up with like-minded voices, and reach agreement. But going straight to the over-heated rhetoric of 'discrimination' helps no one except the lawyers. And I should know, because I am one!

Unfortunately, I fear there are assumptions being made on both sides of this debate. Families homeschool for many reasons. We homeschool primarily because we want to provide our children with a Catholic education, but can't afford to send 5 children to private school. We also do it for academic reasons. As good as the public schools here are, it's difficulty to argue that a 1-on-1 instruction, by a loving parent, tailored precisely to a child's specific strengths and weaknesses, has certain pedagogical benefits. To do this, my wife has sacifricied a career, and I have oped for a career that affords me flexibility. It's very difficult thing to do. We do it - like caring parents everywhere do everything - because we believe it's best for our particular family (given our values and priorities). Others, of course, choose differentiy - they choose what's right for them. I don't attack them for their choices, and think its sad that some here take pot-shots at us for ours. And I think it's unfair to preclude us from some reasonable use of public school system resources (which we fully pay for like every other family here) on the basis of (primarily) animosity.

Ben, I appreciate what you say. My position is that neither extreme - from unfettered access to everything in the school system to absolute total denial - is fair and reasonable. And an extremist positions are usually evidence (in my experience and opinion) of discrimination. Extremist positions that allow no room for accommodation or compromise are, I believe, the result of animosity. So I use the term "discrimination" intentionally here.

teach your homeschooled kid to dunk and rebound
watch those rules go out the window

Bob, I see no reason why they would need or want to. But, since their parents pay taxes like everyone else, I think they too should have access to these programs. It's a PUBLIC school system , and these families are members of the PUBLIC. They pay for it - they should have some reasonable access to it. But again, I can't imagine this would come up.

Ron, i don't think it's relevant whether 'you can or can't imagine this coming up', the question was should private school kids (as well as home schoolers) participate on public school teams. you seem to be making the assertion that it is the right of the tax paying PUBLIC. i pay taxes, can i join one of the language or art clubs? if the criteria is 'paying public', then i want in even if every students experience is compromised by the creepy 51 yr old... if they all leave i'll join a club at the middle school, or how about lenape? there's at least 2 sides to every argument... what isn't here is descrimination or bias, just a school board with a canteloupe in each hand raising and lowering each until they decided on one. i think we need to quit it with the conspiracy theories and the damn taxes!

It's an unfortunate decision in a community where rec sports are not available for young people from grade 8 until age 18. The township provides plenty of opportunities through grade 8 and plenty of opportunities for adults, but none for this population. The change of NJISAA ruling is a positive one. I am certain that young people around the state will benefit from the change. Sadly, Mahwah's youth will not. The township is sure to miss out on many talented young people.

Shades of elitism in academia. Nothing new. Now honestly what did you expect from the very people supposedly educated in the failing school systems in America.These Are the Same People that think will educated means being able to spell anti-disestablishementerianism spending their lives all a twitter when someone makes a spelling mistake. What do Henry Ford Thomas Edison Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have in common. Most of us know but for those elitists with masters degrees and doctorates let me refresh your memories they were all self educated men, among other things.This Kind of Reminds Me of the time Hillsdale New Jersey in 1950 when I got my sandlot baseball team together on a Saturday afternoon and as we will playing our usual baseball game along came a Little League team. Little League team coach informed me that the field was reserved for the Little League and we would have to vacate the field. So I took my team off the field. But as fate would have it the second Little League team to show up. So the coach asked me if we would like to play a game with them. I said sure. We played and although we were all around 10 or 11 years old we beat the Little League something like 40 too zero . I asked Little League coach if they would like to play us the next week. He said no you guys have to join the Little League if you want to play baseball with us. Peter McFarlane

So it's disappointing to see that academia is still stuck in the muck of its own insecurity and inner knowledge of its own shortcomings and failures. Only through acknowledging its failures and limitations will it ever began to become anything really worthwhile. Peter McFarlane

Shades of elitism in academia. Nothing new. Now honestly what did you expect from the very people supposedly educated in the failing school systems in America.These Are the Same People that think well educated means being able to spell anti-disestablishementerianism spending their lives all a twitter when someone makes a spelling mistake. What do Henry Ford Thomas Edison Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have in common. Most of us know but for those elitists with masters degrees and doctorates let me refresh your memories. they were all self educated men, among other things.This Kind of Reminds Me of the time Hillsdale New Jersey in 1950 when I got my sandlot baseball team together on a Saturday afternoon and as we wher playing our usual baseball game along came a Little League team. Little League team and the coach informed me that the field was reserved for the Little League and we would have to vacate the field. So I took my team off the field. But as fate would have it the second Little League team failed to show up. So the coach asked me if we would like to play a game with them. I said sure. We played and although we were all around 10 or 11 years old we beat the Little League something like 40 too zero . I asked Little League coach if they would like to play us the next week. He said no you guys have to join the Little League if you want to play baseball with us. Peter McFarlane ps to bad,thay could have learned somethingfrom us.

I can't keep posting on this, but in sum (and in response to the most recent comments): we have a publicly-funded school system. As such, it should be inclusive, nondiscriminatory, and open to the public to the extent reasonably possible. Quite sadly, the Board has rejected this approach, and chose to exclude homeschooled children from activities that they could have fairly included them in. Several other states and systems have chosen the inclusive path, allowing homeschooled children access to certain school system offerings (usually sports). It can be done. It is not difficult to do Mahwah chose to exclude and discriminate. A sad day for Mahwah and all her families. Children are hurt by this decision, and what really is gained?

when we all begin to accept that these decisions aren't as easy as we'd all like to believe...that there is nothing elitist about educators who have masters degrees or phds... that homeschooling is appreciable and deserves our respect... and that at the interface of all our blacks and whites is a whole lot of gray, then maybe we can begin to start actually communicating.
its always about acceptance and compromise!

It would be very unfair to the home schooled kids to participate in the school programs, such as sports, that are intended to be programs that focus on the representation of the school, school pride. Mahwah school kids play for their school. I guarantee you, that a home school kid who played on a school team would be treated unfairly by teammates and even coaches. I know this is not a healthy situation, but it could not be controlled.

Mahwah athletes have to meet academic and disciplinary scrutiny before they are allowed to play. Contrary to what Mr. Ron would have you believe, students have been barred from sports due to both, even sometimes in the middle of a season. Home-school children would not have that burden. When parents choose to send their kids to private school or home-school their kids, they are waiving their right to the use of the public education system, until they wish to be a part of it full-time. That is one of the "cons" of making that decision when you weigh your options. You knew the downsides of home-schooling your children when you made that decision (at least I hope so). You cited the pros of home-schooling. Well, one of the negatives is they don't get rich social and team building experiences through the public schools system. Either use the system or don't; It complicates it otherwise. Also, feel free to answer some of the questions I have previously posted: Where would it stop? Why not pick and choose which classes you can take? Should they be allowed to use the guidance counselors as they please? Why not let parents who send their kids to private to school to also pick and choose when they feel to use the system if home-schooling parents have the same privilege?

Bob, it would stop where it was unworkable. Again, other states do this just fine.
And I completely reject the all-or-nothing approach. He who pays the piper calls the tune.
We pay for the school system, and have every right to request that it serve the needs of our children as well. The excuses for excluding our children are wearing thin

Where there is a will there is a way. The Board of Ed clearly has no will to serve ALL the children of Mahwah by granting limited access to its programs where appropriate and workable. Again, other communities have demonstrated that this can be done with great success.

I have supported the Mahwah public schools - from collecting box tops to participating in fund raisers. No more.

It's quite sad to see the Board adopt such a divisive policy - and it's even sadder to watch how people attempt to rationalize it as anything less than close-minded animus.

your argument is compelling Bob Rama! but then there are (as i've known two) home -schooled teens who are conflicted about the sacrifices their alternate educations have imposed on them. i just want to give them mention and stress that it is important their experiences not be disregarded. WTS, when push comes to shove, i think i have to agree with the BOE's decision... the details of an inclusive decision seem difficult to manage and in many ways unfair.

Bob, your frustration is understood. Ron's stubborn accusations were outrageous and offensive. i sounds like he distrusts anyone who disagrees with him, and i suspect that is not at all about any of us. i'd like to believe Ron regrets his contumelious language... perhaps he is not the best spokesperson for an issue we need to remain sympathetic and open-minded to, simply out of respect.

We're going around in circles here.
That said, I'm fascinated by the accusation that I've somehow made an offensive accusation.
I think the facts speak pretty clearly for themselves.
The BOE had a choice: to INCLUDE or EXCLUDE homeschooled children in the district in their sports programs. They chose to EXLUDE. That is, by definition, exclusive. That is, by definition, discriminatory.
Here, some have sought to defend this decision.
Despite the fact that several other districts have successfully implemented more inclusive policies, they persist in asserting that the inclusion of homeschooled children is somehow unworkable. That's simply not true, based on evidence from across the country.
And throughout their assertions, these same individuals take thinly-veiled pot-shots against homeschooling.
I'm sorry if it offends you, but I am forced to conclude, after adding everything up, that the BOE's decision, and those defending it, reflect a certain animus against homeschoolers. I might be wrong. The BOE might decide to come up with a workable, compromise solution. Some have been proposed here. Others have been adopted elsewhere. But my strong sense is that this won't happen. And I can only wonder why .....

your in a tough spot. You are homeschooling Catholic children because you can't afford Catholic School but right now if they are athletes too, the best way to get an athletic scholarship to a Catholic college is to send them to public school. There is a book here.

Exclusion does not equal discrimination. If a Mahwah HS student doesn't meet GPA requirements or has a poor disciplinary record and therefore is excluded from playing sports, they are being discriminated against? I think not. But how about this: a home-school child isn't hacking the academics and has a poor disciplinary record but still takes the spot of a Mahwah HS student who is hacking it academically and has a flawless disciplinary record. THAT would be discrimination, and THAT is the BOE's POV. If you don't like their objective reasoning, I suggest you come up with a counter-proposal that quells the BOE's concerns for equality in sports, which are a PRIVILEGE for students to participate in once they have met certain academic and disciplinary criteria. Again, the irony of someone who chooses to limit the diversity in a child's life given by not putting them into a school system is railing against an inclusive school system that has made a decision that is in the best interest of 99% of the students in Mahwah as "bigoted". Insulting, Ron.

Bob, I'm really blown away by your lack of perspective here. We homeschooling families educate our own children completely on our own dime. By doing so, we save our fellow citizens thousands of taxpayer dollars. (And, By every study that has ever been done, we do an incredible job by the way.) On top of that, we pay to educate your kids as well.

So When the State comes around, and authorizes our participation in some school district programming, why are you so shocked to see that we're a bit disappointed that the Mahwah BOE voted against allowing such participation? What's so hard to understand about that? After all, we pay for these programs as much as you do!

You can go back and forth all day long on this issue but the bottom line is: It is not fair for a home schooled child to participate on a public school team. Public school teams have team spirit and form special relationships with their team and coach as a result. A home schooled child would most definitely be left out since they are not with these other students all day, every day. I'm not knocking home schooling, I think it has benefits, but if these kids really were that interested in playing a particular sport, they can join local rec teams or if that's not an option, almost every sport has a club team (yes you have to pay, but even public school kids do this). Also, if the religion aspect is a big part of your education, and your child has really good grades most of the schools will offer a scholarship and then you can participate in the sports.

Does anyone know how many home school children there are in Mahwah?

The home schooled students should not be excluded, just because their parents choose to educate them in a different manner, they should not be judged inadequate to participate with other children and develop social skills accordingly. In my opinion, the ruling is wrong.