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As an alumni of Ramapo College (and for full disclosure I should advise that I am also President of the Alumni Association), I was so very proud last night to be in attendance at the meeting and to witness the incredible presentation delivered by our students. As I am sure everyone in attendance would attest, our students came off as professional, diligent and caring. I was also so very proud of my fellow Mahwah residents in attendance. EVERYONE was so supportive of the students. You all gave these students such a positive and enriching experience last night. Thank you!

Professor Edelstein is to be highly commended for his steadfast mentorship and guidance over these students and their capstone project.

I look forward to seeing future partnerships like this between the Township and the College whereby our students can enhance their education and experiences, and the Township can receive the benefits of their efforts. It's simply a "win-win" for all. :-)

Where is the socioeconomic impact they also promised in this study? How many jobs will be effected? What is the net dollar effect for the town and surrounding area? Tax revenue? Why don't we get some of the Ramapo financial students to take THAT project on if this group didn't?

JP: A socio-economic impact presentation was indeed delivered last night. The students' final written environmental impact study will soon be delivered to the Commission.

JP, you seem only concerned about the $ value. What about peoples health due to contamination that might be in the soil, if disturbed and put in the drinking water, lives could be at stake.

I for one applaud the students for doing the research. Maybe this will help put the mall issue to rest.

Sustainable community development should require zero net energy, zero waste to landfill or incineration and zero storm water and sanitary waste water leaving the site and, public transportation to surrounding town centers.

PRV: Not sure if you were there last night, but the students' presentation addressed those very issues.

Hank: The contamination on the site is already well documented. In fact, as was shown last night, Ford was actively remediating the site until a few years ago (i.e. air strippers on site). Monitoring wells and the like still remain on the site and environmental oversight by the NJDEP continues.

Any development of the site will need to take into account the contamination that exists, just as the development of the Sheraton and the Sharp Headquarters had to take it into account. As the students explained, there are many methods that such contamination can be properly handled in the development. Proper oversight will be the key to insuring that the best methods are used to address the issues.

JP, economic impacts were discussed including effects to local businesses and the hidden costs to tax payers needed to accomodate low wage workers. the average hourly wage at walmart was quoted at $8.40... that's 5 managers each making $14/hr for 75 sales employees each making $8 per hour... empirical data like that was shared.

full disclosure: the students only said what the avg. hourly wage was; i gave the (hypothetical but sound) arithmetic showing how a big-box store pulls that off.

Hank: Contamination to the ground water or within deep layers of soil does not mean that there is "toxic dust" flying around the site that dirt bike riders or others might be exposed to. One should be careful to not spread such hysteria if it is not warranted. Hundreds, if not thousands of folks are on the Crossroads property on any given day.

If you had been at the meeting last night, you would have seen the presentation concerning the environmental oversight and monitoring that has been and continues to apply to the property. There is no evidence anywhere to show that there is toxic dust flying around on the site or in West Mahwah.

ok, I stand corrected
if that's the case
then obviously it is not too contaminated to build a mall there

I have never heard any allegations about the site being too contaminated to build on (if it was, then one would wonder how hundreds (if not thousands) of people per day are allowed on the site at the Sharp and Sheraton facilities). The challenge will be to properly manage and/or further remediate the exisiting contamination in connection with whatever development might happen on the property.

My understanding is that Ford ultimately remains responsible for the contamination on the property. As was presented to us by the students, the Federal Government did investigate the property to see if it was in need of placing under Federal oversight (i.e. 'Superfund"). The Federal Government concluded that the contamination was not so extensive that it warranted such oversight. As such, the oversight for the remediation was placed with the New Jersey State DEP.

How serious can we take the whole presentation? In the end these are just students. They are not professionals with years of experience. They were upfront when they presented the material as a 'faux' firm. While this seems as a good classroom exercise I feel it is dangerous to make this part of the public record. At stake are million dollar lawsuits and millions in investments. The reports that should be made public and used in the discussions are the reports prepared by professionals with impeccable credentials. I am sure they did good work for the classroom. However this information should not be used outside of the classroom.

As was CLEARLY conveyed at the meeting that the students' presentation was simply for informative purposes. In fact, the Environmental Commission itself is only an ADVISORY body. They answer to the Planning Board. The Planning Board holds the legal authority to act. The Environmental Commission is simply using the students' presentation as "food for thought." As the Mayor noted at the meeting, the Planning Board has its own independent expert environmental consultant under retainer (with the developer having put up an escrow account to pay for the costs of such independent expert).

I do not understand why the students' presentation is "dangerous" to make public. ANYONE who gets up to speak at such a meeting is put on the public record. Should we not put on the record the statements of citizens who attend such meetings since they are not "experts"?

I fail to see why the extensive work these students have performed should not be "shared" with the public. For instance, the historical research these students did of the public record with regard to this property was incredible. The fact that these students are not "experts" in no way diminishes the historical information they were able to gather and present. Quite honestly, I had NO CLUE that until recent years there were "air strippers" actively in operation at this property in order to remediate contamination. It was only due to the students' research (including aerial photos) that I was made aware of this.

Jonathan I am not saying anything in the report they presented is wrong. As President of the Alumni Association your pride in the classes and work being done by the undergrads is understandable. We are lucky to have a college in Mahwah with an active student body and growing in prestige every year. As an M&A attorney I am sure you have experienced what havoc well intended wrong information can cause. Would any Big 4 firm ever advise a client to promote the work of a student project to the public? Especially when that project is already controversial and subject to multiple lawsuits? The reason to do these projects in a classroom is that it allows the students to be wrong and learn from their mistakes. They do have the right to present the class project to public boards. I am stating that I feel that is ill advised for multiple reasons relating to the issue at hand.

Roger: I take it that you did not witness the presentation. If you did, I think your concerns might be addressed. In fact, I would argue that the students actually raised some issues that had not been thought of prior and may very well factor into the design of the development at the site. For instance, one of the presentations talked about the cultural significance of the Crossroads site. It was suggested that if a retail center is developed on the site that a "cultural center" be considered for inclusion in the project which would highlight the rich history of Mahwah and particularly the Lenape Nation.

Another presentation discussed the types of waste that different forms of developed properties can create. It was then shown that if proper planning is factored into the development of the property, a "zero waste" goal can be put in place. A wonderful idea that is certainly worthy of review.

The presentation had many ideas like these set forth. The students did not deliver the type of presentation where there is a concept of "right" or "wrong." That was not what they were asked to do, nor would it be appropriate for students to do that.

The students looked at the facts underlying the property and then were asked to apply hypothetical development scenarios to those facts and deliver ideas from various perspectives.

Again, I think if you had witnessed the presentation, you would understand that there was no "risk" here.

Jonathan - You are an attorney and I really do believe that you have the best interests of the students in mind. I admire your defense of them. I was not at the presentation and still do not have a strong opinion either way. That is why I felt concerned about what was presented. Thank you for your diligence and I take nothing away from the exercise that the students did. I work in a field that always requires 'expert' opinions. Sometimes I need to step back and realize that good ideas do not need to come from experts. I was just concerned that there was a liability to having non experts present a formal report. Now through this discussion I realize that was unfounded.

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