Traffic Engineer: Crossroads Mall Could Generate 1,000 Cars An Hour On Route 17
Planning board members and the public questioned engineers analysis that most cars coming to the proposed shopping center live within 20 minutes of Mahwah
According to a traffic expert who testified at Monday night’s continuation of the Crossroads Town Center public hearing, the shopping development at the intersection of Routes 17, 287 and 87 would not generate too much additional traffic in Mahwah. Based on a study of the current traffic rates on Route 17 and a projection of how many cars will be coming into and out of the retail complex at its busiest times, traffic engineer Daniel Disario said he doesn’t “think the center will be as big of a draw as everyone thinks it will be.”
About 50 residents gathered Monday night to hear Disario’s comments on traffic at the controversial proposed complex.
“Almost 70 percent of the patrons to the Crossroads Town Center will come from five municipalities immediately surrounding the site,” Disario projected. His analysis concluded that most people visiting the 600,000-square-foot development designed to include shops, a movie theater, restaurants and two big box stores, would come from Mahwah, Suffern and Ramsey, with significant numbers of people also coming from Airmont and Monsey, NY.
Based on its proposed design, Disario testified that the CTC “would not have much of a regional draw.” The majority of shoppers, diners and movie-goers at the center would travel only 20-minutes or less to get there, he said. “There is a population of 196,000 people who live within 20 minutes of [Crossroads],” Disario said. “That is more than enough to support this type of center.”
The traffic engineer said he based his findings on a study of how much traffic currently passes through Route 17 during its most congested hours – between 4 and 6 p.m. Friday night, and between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. Saturday. Disario said his office counted the number of cars that passed by locations near the proposed development during those hours on June 10 and 11 of last year. The engineer said he looked at data from the “peak hours of the peak season – a nice day in the summer.”
During the analysis conducted last summer, the engineer found that during one peak hour on a Friday night, 4,157 cars drive on Route 17 North, passing the exit ramp to Leisure Lane. During one of the peak hours on Saturday, about half that many – 2,154 cars – drove by. Cars driving on Route 17S showed the same pattern – with 2,029 driving by during one hour on a Friday afternoon, and 1,938 during an hour on Saturday.
Disario projected that the shopping center would generate an additional 925 cars going in and out of it during one hour on a Friday night, and 1,183 during one hour on a Saturday. This would include vehicles that are driving specifically to the Crossroads, and those that were already driving on Route 17, and stopped off at the Crossroads Town Center, he said.
Members of the board questioned Disario’s calculations. “With a 3,000-seat theater, restaurants, two big box stores and a bunch of other little shops, the numbers don’t seem to add up,” Planning Board Chair Todd Sherer told Disario Monday night.
The engineer said, however, that his estimate will “probably end up being more than the number of cars that actually go into and out of the site everyday,” because his calculation did not take into account people who are “already traveling on Mahwah’s roads to go to Paramus to shop. These people are going to continue coming the way they are now, they’ll just stop at this center instead of continuing down Route 17. I counted them as new trips, but in reality, these people are already on your roads,” Disario said.
According to his testimony, Disario projected that the center would draw about one-third of its shoppers from points north of Mahwah, and two-thirds from points south. “Even if I based my calculations on people coming from 30 or 40 minutes to get here [instead of 20], the numbers wouldn’t change that significantly, because the further north you go, the less population there is. And, there is less of a draw to come here because those people have shopping opportunities closer to them,” he said.
Disario also testified that the eventual tenants – which stores inhabit the spaces inside the development – will not significantly impact the amount of traffic drawn to the Crossroads. In response to questions from the board, Disario said he did not feel any one store would have a big enough regional draw to impact traffic more significantly than what he estimated. “Estimates are based on square-footage, not on the specific tenants." According to the Crossroads developer, no tenants have been secured for any of the stores or restaurants in the development.
Disario also said that from a traffic standpoint, a mall layout has an “advantage” over single, free-standing retailers, which is much of what lines route 17 in between Mahwah and Paramus. “With independent retailers, cars need to get back on the highway to go from store to store. Here, they can stay within the parking area,” he said.
The engineer concluded his presentation with a brief description of the proposed traffic improvements the developer would pay for outside the center to facilitate entrance into and exit from the Crossroads complex. Proposed improvements include reconfiguring the Moutainside Rd., Leisure Lane intersection, the elimination of the Leisure Lane access to the development, two new access roads and additional traffic lights. The complex would have three entrance points from Route 17N, but only one – via Mountainside Road – from 17S.
Board members and the public expressed concern that the one entrance on the south side would be an inconvenience, and possibly a safety hazard, for residents of Stag Hill Rd., who would need to sit in mall traffic and pass the entrance of the Crossroads Town Center to access their homes. “It does not make sense to me that a mall entrance should be the only access to a residential neighborhood,” Board member Jeremiah Crean said.
Though Disario said that the proposed roadway improvements could change based on collaboration with the state Department of Transportation and the township, he said that the findings of his traffic analysis “do not warrant building an additional overpass over Route 17.” The engineer argued that the proposed improvements would make for a “much safer intersection” than what is at Mountainside Rd. now.
The developer is required to spend $6M on traffic improvements, with a minimum of $3.6M for the township. The remaining $2.4M would be spent on DOT-required improvements.
Disario will return to Mahwah April 9 to continue his testimony in front of the planning board. His future appearances will include an analysis of traffic flow within the shopping center, as well as around it. A traffic engineer hired by the planning board will also question Disario's findings.
Hank
7:30 am on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
Seems like the "stop the mall" people got the whole town in an uproar for nothing.
What happened to "20,000 more cars per day"? and "another Paramus"?
They went from 400 angry citizens, to 60 and now 50.
As more of their election day lies are exposed.
The less people will show up.
Murray Kashtan
9:07 am on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
This is all Bull. When the shopping centers come in,all the extra thousands of cars will be exiting through the towns' side streets. U see NY cars are now running through our side streets. Can u imagine the traffic if this mall becomes a reallty.
Murray
JP
9:23 am on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
It's ridiculous to think that most of the people coming to the mall are not local. As to Murray contention about side streets... what side streets. There are no connecting side streets. It's just three highways period. You can't get to the Sheraton from side streets, and I beg him to go out there and try it today.
CC
9:35 am on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
I agree with Murray. If this shopping center goes in, all of the NY residents off Airmont Rd and Route 59 will be using our side streets to get to the center. As a Mahwah resident I don't mind driving to shop. I moved here to this town over 20 years ago to get away from Rockland County and all of its overbuilding, shopping and crime. That is what Mahwah will turn into because where do you think the majority of shoppers will come from? New York, because they won't have to pay tax on clothing and lower tax on everything else. Have you been to Garden State Plaza on a weekend evening? I have. Wait until you see the crime that will generate from that. Keep Mahwah residential - we don't need any more stores.
Hank
10:13 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
it evens out because I use Airmont in NY to go to Walmart
Mahwah Resident
10:12 pm on Thursday, March 15, 2012
I agree with Murray and CC. I will not go to Garden State Plaza on the weekend day or night. It is disgusting and not safe!!!!!! And by the way I attended the meeting and their traffic advisor was a joke. NO MALL IN MAHWAH
buildthemallandgetitoverwith
11:07 am on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
@Murray/CC - Do you really think this argument is about traffic or a mall? It's about the options. If the mall doesn't go up it will be rezoned (yes, again). Would you like the developers to build 500+ low-income housing units? Or how about if it is rezoned for heavy industrial use or gas/oil storage facilities? How about a 500 patient psychiatric hospital for the criminally insane? My point is that a mall/retail space is the safest option we have. The land WILL be used for something at some point, so start thinking about what could be there INSTEAD of a mall. It's not going to be a park or anything that doesn't generate revenue. Commercial space won't happen since the demand just isn't there to justify the cost of building more offices (for now). @CC - do you really think that at $3.80 a gallon for gas you're going to get NY residents traveling great distances to save on sales tax? Please! That's a lame duck, poor presumption. And "keep Mahwah residential"...does that mean you want more condos? They won't be building mega mansions there, so what do you suggest with property values at an all time low? In that location all you'll have is low-income housing. Stop thinking about repercussions of traffic and crime and start thinking about the possibilities of what could be built there in lieu of a mall. We may not need any more stores, but we certainly don't need something built that is even more detrimental to our property values, lifestyle, environment and safety.
JP
2:32 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
It's very hard for them not to talk about traffic, it's the only excuse they have, and it's not even a good one according to this latest analysis.
JoeRobertson
9:34 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Oh... let's throw a red herring in there... let's scare everyone. THE PROPERTY WAS ZONED FOR OFFICE SPACE... NOT low income housing. You're so transparent.
Ralph
10:07 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Joe get off your rear end and do some research on COAH requirements before you put your comments on here. One critea that COAH looks at before it assigns the number of housing units it the amount of possible space where housing can go in town, which is considered undeveloped land. The crossroads property regardless of zoning which we all know can and has been changed in town is still considered undeveloped and would count as potental land. COAH wouldnt tell the town where to build just that the have to build somewhere. If the area is not developed somehow, we might be liable for additional COHA requirements. Once again think long and hard about the stress on the school system if any type of additional housing is required in Mahwah. And btw get off of the alias stuff. It just shows how ignorant you really are. Remember some of the great writers in the world have written under alias'.
Mahwah Resident
10:17 pm on Thursday, March 15, 2012
They can't and won't put in condo's or low-income housing. You cannot fit anymore kids in the Mahwah school system. Did you ever see the halls between classes at JK, the Ridge and the High School??????
Kevin
11:16 am on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
Hank at what cost to residents? I understand you want the stores to do better but what about an increase in traffic in the area. When Rt17 backs up drivers exit 17 onto Island Rd then head to East Ramapo to Franklin Tpk or down my street Devine Dr to hit 202 to bypass the traffic lights.This happens on a regular basis and my concern it will increase. I want to know what the council plans on doing if this becomes an issue. This mall will most likely go in and the job of the council is to have a contingency plan if these issues are worst then first presented. I don't think that is to much to ask and find it hard to understand why you or JP do not see that.
Hank
11:33 am on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
Kevin everyone in Mahwah gets their chance to get screwed. I got screwed 3 times in 30 years. The people who did not get their houses bought up when 287 came through, ridge road condos in your back yard,the people who now have a giant brick building in their back yard to look at,million dollar homes stuck in Newark Airport flight pattern. I guess its your turn.
JP
2:53 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
Kevin, I live in the area and I've only seen backups occur because of emergencies on the thruway and 287 (and yes, I'm out there most days). You'll note this study essentially backs that up and predicts nothing about overflow to town roads because there won't be any. Too bad they spent money on this analysis because it's basically what some of us have been saying just from using common sense. I don't know why you don't get THAT?
Mercedes1
10:54 pm on Thursday, March 15, 2012
Kevin,
Doesn't most of the traffic wind up on Island Rd. to 202 rather than your street?
CC
12:07 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
@buildthemallandgetitoverwith: Yes at 3.80 per gallon the NY residents will come over here because they are a stone's throw away from our town. It will be closer for them than going to Paramus malls or Palisades Center. I'm from Rockland - I moved here to get away from all the political nonsense and overbuilding. This will be the beginning of the end if this mall goes in. And yes, if it came down to it, I would rather have affordable housing than have out of town people crowding up our roads, stores, etc. The negatives outweigh the positives. With a multiplex movie theatre alone that will generate 3000 people per weekend night. Think about those people driving around side streets, causing accidents, burglaries, etc. I am all for shopping, if they could make it like Tices Corners in Woodcliff Lake with high end stores and restaurants. This would keep a lot of "undesirables" out and keep our town a place people are proud to live in. Just saying.
Ralph
12:48 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
CC: I hope you think twice about affordable housing going to that site. With the new ruling about COAH being somewhat back into the picture, all bets are now off and Mahwah may have to increase their affordable housing obligation. If that happens and this area is considered not developed, our obligation might go up. Be very careful if that happens. Affordable housing brings an additional strain on our school system. More schools may have to be built to accomodate the increase in students. What that means is higher school taxes and no retail revenue from this site. Since school taxes account for the majority of our taxes, our housing prices may continue to drop since we will be like every other town in the area with rediculous taxes. And to think the school board is having trouble right now with the teachers contract. What will happen if we grow into a town much bigger then what we have right now. Be very careful on what you wish for.
buildthemallandgetitoverwith
1:15 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
@CC - First off, you moved to Mahwah from Rockland County to get away from overbuilding? That's laughable. I don't think you did your homework unless you moved here over 35 yrs ago. The last 20 years in Mahwah have been about building and nothing else. You should have moved to Hunterdon County. When I say "low income housing", I don't mean $100k condos that will be rented to hard working employed citizens making under $40k a year. We're talking about the lowest form of housing. Welfare/Project type housing is a DEFINITE possibility based on the location of the land. The tax benefits alone make it an attractive option. You want that? I'd rather have a few more cars on the road and some movie goers. I don't see a Tices Corner situation going in there, but we need jobs, our town needs revenue and the land needs to be used for retail in order for it to make sense. I know many of the town police officers and based on their feedback, they don't seem to think there will be a "dramatic" increase in serious crime or burglaries. As far as accidents go, think about all those idiots that didn't want the Pilot renovated. They all thought there would be massive HAZMAT spills and noxious fumes. Oh and prostitution, too! Yea, that was a worthwhile fight. I see at least one or more of those people (from the anti-Pilot group) every month buying candy there for their kids while they fuel up. It just doesn't make sense to roll the dice and wind up with something far, far worse.
JP
3:00 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
CC, what makes you think it won't be high end stores? The leases have not been issued yet. Seems the old bigotry fear about this mall is rearing its ugly head again.
JP
4:35 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
BTW, I disagree with the "not Tice Corners" comparison. Looking at the drawings it seems to actually be "upscale". Don't discount it off hand, I'll bet you'll be quite happy with the way it comes out.
JoeRobertson
9:36 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Ralph... STOP with the affordable housing. It ain't gonna happen. The property was zoned for OFFICE SPACE, NOT housing. Geez... And quit with the multiple aliases. You're fooling nobody.
JP
5:22 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Joe it was zoned for office space for which no one ever wanted to build an office building. If it were to be office space you'd have more traffic consistently every day during rush hours when you need it the least. I think they predicted 4000 extra cars daily for office space. Doesn't that upset you also?
Kevin
12:15 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
Once again you do not address the point I made and make it about yourself. I am glad you are not one of the people making choices for the residents. Based on your past you would be vindictive in your choices. Your outlook is a bad and sad one to say its my turn to get screwed. You being screwed may have been three single events. This will screw people over and over again everyday. Statements like this is why the people here have no respect for you in what you say. Having your thoughts is one thing how you share them reveals your true colors.
Hank
7:34 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
There won't be any mall traffic on Devine. Why aren't your neighbors up in arms?
Where are the stop the mall signs on Devine. Where are the stop the mall signs in West Mahwah for that matter.
T-Bird 148
1:51 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
I love the argument about "what's going to happen on Friday nights during the summer when the traffic is already backed up?" Which leads me to my own question - how often do you get in your car and leave your house between 4:30 and 6:00 pm with the intention of going to a mall? Going to guess most people would say NEVER! So ... would a shopping center create more traffic OR would it simply draw from the traffic that is already there? If you drove on Rt 17 every Friday night in order to get home or to an upstate weekend house and you had the option of sitting in traffic for an hour or more OR stopping at the "mall" in Mahwah, doing some shopping, and getting something to eat which option would you pick?
CC
2:30 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
@buildthemallandgetitoverwith: When I moved to Mahwah it was and still is the lowest taxed town in Bergen County and I travel to go to a mall by choice. Have you been to Rockland County lately? See all the traffic, horrible roads, bad schools, low life people? Do you have any idea how corrupt most of the town governments are there? A lot worse than ours! And FYI, I didn't care about Pilot one way or the other and comparing Pilot to a "lifestyle" shopping center with a multiplex movie theatre and 2 big box stores is a little different. You say we need jobs. Who do you think is going to work at all of the store? Do you think it will be only Mahwah residents? That's laughable. It will be all Suffern, Monsey, Spring Valley people coming over.
Roger Pachiderm
3:08 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
Can you be any more offensive? What you are really saying is that you are afraid of all the Suffern (Latino), Monsey (Jewish) and Spring Valley (Haitian) people shopping and working near you. Is that the real fear of the Stop the Mall campaign?
JP
4:46 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
Yes it is Roger. I've been saying that's the "unspoken" personal agenda all along. It's not really about traffic, it's all about people. Who they want in town and who they don't want in town. What's very funny about this whole thing is they all talk like the mall is being built on top of town square (Veterans Park) instead of the most out of the way, unused, crappy piece of land in the middle of nowhere. I welcome this developer building a mall there and creating jobs, because, quite frankly, no one other then they wanted to build anything on that site since the Sheraton went up. BTW the Sheraton is the ONLY legitimate one in my mind that should have ANY say on this mall. They are the ONLY "resident" to actually be directly affected. Anybody know what their stance on this is? I assume they would think it's good for business, but you never know.
Hank
6:18 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
all kinds of secret words
"traffic"= Jews from Monroe
"new yorkers looking to avoid sales tax"=Jews from Monroe
"clogging up our side streets"=Jews from Monroe
"crime"= Mexicans from Suffern
ok now you are up to speed
JoeRobertson
9:38 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Good lord, Roger... you're really reaching here. It seems to me CC was talking about EXTRA TRAFFIC from NY towns that would come to Mahwah to shop to avoid sales tax on clothes. Let's not throw out the race and religion cards. It's about TRAFFIC. You really seem desperate to try to support your case.
J
3:10 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
The issue for me is not the traffic on Rt17 but the overflow onto the side roads. As a parent of two young children I hate the thought that my children are going to lose even more play time outside to accommodate the overflow. Will it be the shoppers? No, but it will be the NY drivers who now won't wait on Rt 17 and will use our streets to avoid it. Don’t get me wrong, we are for the Mall and the positive things it can bring to our town. I would just like extra precautions put in place for the traffic that will divert onto the side streets so my children can continue to play safely outside.
buildthemallandgetitoverwith
3:35 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
@cc - Yes, I have been to Rockland County. Some parts are very pretty and some look like a garbage pail. Every County has it's bad and good areas. You know that. Yes, I do know how corrupt town governments are there (and everywhere else). But, at least I know that their corrupt behavior is usually sparked by greed. And in this case, "greed is good". I wasn't comparing the Pilot renovation to the mall. I was comparing the reaction by the public to the increased possibility of accidents in the area (as you stated). As far as my statement about "needing jobs", I was speaking as an American who wants to see more people employed in this country. I don't care if they're from Mahwah or not. I never suggested that the jobs would go to only Mahwah residents so your "laughable" comment directed towards me is unfounded. All you're doing is speculating on what traffic and crime the mall will bring to the area. You keep straying from my initial point and the most pertinent queries! WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE ON THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY? WHAT DO YOU THINK IS BEST FOR THAT PIECE OF LAND? WHAT IS BEST FOR MAHWAH AND ITS SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES? Give me an intelligent response and we'll go from there.
JP
4:51 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
If they don't build a mall, I'm perfectly ok with the casino concept. If you've ever seen Mohican Sun, the place is beautiful.
Gottardo DiGiacopo
4:54 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
Mahwah had/has an excellent master-plan for bringing in revenues from Corporations neatly stationed in mahwah. As soon as we get past this bad mall idea and put the zoning back where it rightfully was, i look forward to Mr Wilke and Mr jawaorski building a state-of-the-art complex for the bio-medical industry, technology development, information processes, international trade, or whatever other type of proud new business would like to set itself up here in Mahwah.
JP
6:01 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
This is the one large issue I don't know why you or any of the other Stop Mall people can't seem to absorb. Ok, so we were zoned for corporate offices there, no one wants to build offices there. Not now, not in the last 15 years. Finally someone actually wants to build something there and use the site for productive reasons instead of growing a dirt farm. The council changes the zoning in order to facilitate the use of the land (FINALLY) and benefit the town and create a few hundred jobs. Stop Mall would rather play with the dirt farm instead. So how is the mall a bad idea Gottardo when no one else wants to build anything other then that there? If they did, don't you think after all these years it would have been negotiated already?. Is that too far out there to understand?
Q
8:34 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
I chose to live here to get away from Mall lifestyles and traffic. Once we are just like all of the other mundane towns we will loose our value and most of us invested in. Secondly- the people who have concerns about the mall don't bash the "mall goers" because they have the opposite values I do. I am dissapointed to see such desire blinding forsight. I really dont understand the attraction and how anyone would actually boast they live in Mall town? I think perhaps there will always be some that think a Mall will fill a gap in their lives that they cant find some other way. So no matter what the consequences they still think they cant live without it.
JP
7:31 pm on Tuesday, March 13, 2012
Patch? Why is there a survey attached to this thread as if the results of a legitimate traffic analysis is up for debate based on peoples feelings? It is what it is. It has to stand on it's own. Those who perceive it to be wrong, can't backup their choice with opposing numbers.
Gottardo DiGiacopo
7:34 am on Saturday, March 17, 2012
Are we pretending that One-Thousand-Cars-Per-Hour is not significant?? the shopping days are long and frequent, and then of course there's Christmas.
CC
8:21 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Thank you Q and Gottardo - It's nice to know there are other people out there who think rationally without being one sided. To people like buildthemallandgetitoverwith and Roger, I'm definitely not prejudice, but as I said before I did live with "those people" as you marked them from different towns. Those areas used to be exactly like Mahwah was and when corrupt politicians came in and did what they wanted and the people did nothing about it well...you drive around Route 59 and see what it looks like. I guess none of you have children because I'd like to see if you would let your kids go to a movie theatre at GSP or Palisades Mall on a weekend night and see what really goes on. Have you bothered to take a look around and see all of the vacant stores in Ramsey, Ridgewood, Paramus, etc.? What about all of the vacant or nearly vacant office buildings. Because yeah we really need more eyesores of vacant buildings put up. How about a hockey rink or more soccer and baseball fields for the kids. If you had kids you would realize that the town is short of space on that. Keep the word "Parkland" in Mahwah. If in fact this "lifestye" shopping center happens I really hope it's done classy because anything else will be the downfall of this town and you wait and see how real estate plummets.
JP
8:36 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
That's just illogical. Developers would not be investing big money for a new center to have it sit there empty. Trust me, investors don't anti-up big money for a 600K sq ft mall not to make a profit. The reason stores go vacant is because they either can't compete in down times, or they are part of a national chain that go bankrupt. You do notice stores going up right now on Rt 17 in ramsey don't you? There are 4 new stores going in at Interstate, a new Smash Burger, Pizza place and a Vitamin Shoppe across the highway there. What's the difference? The only ones fearing going vacant because of this mall are the ones who won't be able to offer something better for the customers to attract them there.
JP
8:42 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
BTW, what you describe is exactly what happened to the old Bergen Mall on Rt4. It got stale it got old, nobody was going there any more, so you know what they did, leveled the place and restarted from scratch, and now business is literally booming. It's booming because they brought in more upscale anchor stores and a more attractive environment, and now the Bergen Town center (and the whole area there) is a desirable place to go. Do you ever venture down there? There's a new Lowes, an REI, a large new gym where the old movie theaters were. It's poppin'!
Hank
9:44 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
CC you are a typical full of baloney anti mall person
Besides Borders give me one example of a vacant store in Ramsey
Q
10:53 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
By the arguments put forth Pro and Con - It is evident this boils down to a Culture Clash. When you want something so badly- No fact or consideration will ruin the dream or muddy the dream of achieving the end, and let a good idea be ruined by any fact.
Kevin
11:12 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Hank do us all a favor and yourself stop posting your thoughts. Even a person who wants the mall can not agree with you and all the stupid remarks you make. You play ever card you have and each time you open your mouth you sound dumber and dumber. You own a business in town? If you do I cant imagine you would be a success after the mall is in, once you open your mouth and speak to your customers they must think I'm not going back there.
Hank
2:08 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
just for that I am cutting down Devine from now on...so there
Mahwah Resident
10:35 pm on Thursday, March 15, 2012
Kevin, it doesn't make you sound like a very smart person by what you have just said about Hank.
cc
11:13 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Hank - What drugs are you on? FYI - I am pro mall and shop quite often. I just don't want unnecessary traffic and crime in my backyard. And perhaps you should check again, beside Borders in Ramsey, there are several empty stores on Main St in Ramsey, MacArthur Blvd in Mahwah, Franklin Tpke (A&P Shopping Center) in Mahwah, etc, etc etc Are those enough examples for you? Would you like exact locations and what stores used to be there.
buildthemallandgetitoverwith
12:24 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Wait a second - now you're pro-mall? Is that pro-Mahwah-mall? Or do you just like malls in general? Wow.
Hank
2:10 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
first it was "all the empty stores" now its down to "several"
buildthemallandgetitoverwith
12:13 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
CC - I do have kids and yes, I would allow him to go to GSP or Palisades at night. I trust his judgment and I don't think those locations are nearly as bad as you make them out to be (unless you're really afraid of everything). I, like you, was not born here in Mahwah. I grew up in NYC and was fortunate enough to have two "educations". I'm pretty sure my son could handle himself if faced with a difficult situation. As a father, I promote intelligent choices, common sense and using good judgment when it comes to teaching him about life. And so far so good. I've been to those locations at night and there is NOTHING to be scared about. But hey, if you're afraid to send your kids there, that's your choice and I respect that. But this isn't about our children, so I'll move on. As far as vacant buildings go - Ramsey just built another 3 stores at Interstate that are already leased. Ultima Cosmetics and two restaurants will be opening shortly. I and my son both play hockey so I don't see a rink going there when the other rinks in the area are hurting for business (my friend owns 3 in NJ and they are having a rough time). There is way too much space to put more fields and they just won't generate any revenue. Your intentions seem good, but your ideas just aren't. I'm guessing you're an educator or a government employee. It's very possible you have your own business close by and a mall could threaten it. But from my perspective as a successful and shrewd businessman, the mall works.
cc
12:54 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
@buildthemallandgetitoverwith - Wow, would love to know who you really are instead of hiding behind a lame name. If you bothered to read what I posted, I said I am a shopper but I just don't want it in my backyard. And believe me, I am far from paranoid. I too, grew up in NYC, but kids up here simply don't have the street smarts and don't always have good judgment although we teach them that. The malls are a breeding place for people to "hang out" and get into stupid trouble and more serious issues. I do let my kids go to the movies at night, but as I said before, I don't want it in my backyard because I think that a lot of these people no matter what their ethnic background are going to bring crime into the area which will eventually bring down our property values. And you apparently don't own a local mom and pop store since you claim to be a "successful and shrewd businessman". You also mentioned that the new building on Route 17 is fully rented. You neglected to respond to my other vacant buildings that I mentioned. Take a good look around. Oh, I forgot to mention Chestnut Ridge Rd in Montvale and Ridgewood Ave in Ridgewood. Not to mention numerous spots on Route 17 in Paramus. Maybe you are right about the hockey rink, but that's pretty much the only thing we will agree on. Have a great day!
buildthemallandgetitoverwith
1:12 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
CC - Hiding? Your handle is CC! My "lame" name is just as anonymous and "lame" as yours. I could care less who you are. I didn't feel the need to reply about the other vacant buildings since I was just pointing out that there is some positive development in the local retail business. You're correct, I do not own a M&P shop. But my family did for years in NYC and on LI. I worked there for years until they were pushed out by big business. That's life and the evolution of business. So be it. One of your posts states that you're pro-mall. But you don't want the Mahwah mall because its in your backyard. It looks like you'll have to move. Already having a great day, but thanks!
Kevin
4:40 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Hank I invite you to come and stop by my home meet my family. You never fail to show your lack of understanding and class. If I knew where you lived I would not drive there for the sack of driving there. There are plenty of neighbors on my street also upset about this, especially the famlies who contiune to get flooded out. Residents on North Railroad also upset about the traffic. Until you have the chops to sit down with someone like me and discuss this over a cup of coffee you should remain silent. It will help you save face and not look so classless. It is hard for me to imagine you actually are a business owner in this town.
Mahwah Resident
10:52 pm on Thursday, March 15, 2012
Everyone who attended the meeting knows their "traffic expert'' was a complete JOKE.
He gave ridiculous information. Hey, Mr. traffic expert, don't quit your day job.
Hank
11:10 pm on Thursday, March 15, 2012
You better come up with your own one pretty quick. Time is running out.
Kevin
10:26 am on Friday, March 16, 2012
Mercedes1. Yes it does go down Island Rd and when people go that way the first time and get stuck at the stop sign they look for an alternate route the next time. This results in Devine Dr as the cut through. On a Saturday there are NY vehicles cutting down my street. Most drivers move at a fast pace down the street and there is a blind spot because of the hill. So there is a safety issue.
Regenbogen
2:17 am on Sunday, March 18, 2012
Have you notified the police of the speeding traffic? Is there anything they can do?
Gottardo DiGiacopo
7:55 am on Saturday, March 17, 2012
The mall apparatchiks were disingenuously playing the race card (dispicable), then recalling Tice's Corner and Interstate (wildly unrelated in every and any way), and even suggesting Devine DR. doesn't get screwed by traffic (as if being landlocked within all the clogged surrounding roads with frustrated shortcutters speeding past your house is average)... it makes you wonder why you bother commenting?
FTR: Berben Mall is gross with a few outlet stores; it is not at all 'poppin' jp!
JP
3:56 pm on Saturday, March 17, 2012
It is "poppin'" , pay a visit there some time. Learn something that you can speak realistically about instead of trying to suppress private development with your hangups about moving forward in this community. When you say a mall like the new Bergen Town Center is gross, well then we all know you have no idea what the hell you are talking about and you probably haven't visited the Bergen Mall in 10 years, right? You need to get out more.
Hank
10:49 am on Saturday, March 17, 2012
Gottardo lets face it. It's crunch time. Stop the mall can either put up or shut up. It turns out that you have no proof of any of your claims. eg 20,000 new trips per day and you guys collected donations based on your claims. Money changed hands. And meeting after meeting it shows you guys made a lot of things up. You guys did not have a traffic study to refute the developers traffic study. You could not give an example of how the proposed mall would turn into "another Paramus" that is any kind of game changer. No one did any kind of traffic study on Devine drive. You would think a guy could count cars for a couple hours just to prove his point. And if the cars are speeding call the police. That's what we do in my neck of the woods.
JP
4:02 pm on Saturday, March 17, 2012
It's the typical people in town whining about something new going on Hank. They have no real cause and no real damages, they just want to complain and make it difficult for the mayor and town council because they are power freaks. They think they know better then anyone else. I've dealt with them for many many years. They will be shut down eventually and the mall will get started, and after it's done, nothing will be worse only better, and these people complaining will all go to the mall and shop and live as the typical little hypocrites they are.
Hank
11:10 pm on Saturday, March 17, 2012
I agree it appears they have no facts to counter the developer. I thought for sure they had their act together.
Gottardo DiGiacopo
6:27 pm on Sunday, March 18, 2012
Woops, sorry i missed the last rants Hank and JP. you guys should be a cartoon (within a cartoon) like Itchy and Scratchy... and we could just rename The Mahwah Patch as The Itchy and Scratchy Show, complete with the music too. Do you know the cartoon that Bart and Lisa watch on The Simpsons? You guys could dice each other up with meat cleavers and do other funny slap-stick stuff like that. Do you guys smile?... Cuz i'm crackin-up!
Hank, here's our proof: Paramus, Pallisades, Megamall (the movie)! And please find me one contributor who regrets their investment and i'll refund the amount to you... it's a short list of people who know each other by their (real) names.
JP, it's not the newness of the BM stores that is gross; it's the experience of routes 17 & 4 interfacing in endless pavement and 8 lanes of cars running to and from, the cars and their lives running, as far as your eyes can see, people running to and from in their cars. I'm grateful for those malls (i like Sears) and my family and friends and i are especially grateful that they're not here.
JP
9:55 pm on Tuesday, March 20, 2012
Let me ask you something. How is this mall going to damage you personally? I don't mean the traffic, that would just be an annoyance if it happened. What I mean are what monetary or personal damages will you experience if it gets built? What is your PERSONAL motivation for opposing it beyond traffic?
Hank
7:22 pm on Sunday, March 18, 2012
the developer had facts and figures about a 600,000 sq ft mall
where is stop the mall's facts and figures
"look at Paramus" is kind of lame
The developer was specific about the size of the mall.
It is up to you, who had all the answers a few month's ago, to prove to the board and Mahwah citizens that the mall will be some thing much larger including HOW and WHY.
And you can't.
Why can't you be specific like the developer?
You talked a big game during election but right now the developer is walking all over the 50 of you.
Gottardo DiGiacopo
8:01 pm on Sunday, March 18, 2012
Or, maybe you're lame (hank) and the "look at Paramus" argument is dead on. Want to take a vote Itchy? what's scratchy thinkin?
Hank
3:24 am on Monday, March 19, 2012
How dare you play the cartoon card.
Kevin
7:36 pm on Sunday, March 18, 2012
What I find to be amazing is people like JP and Hank like to use what they claim is common sense to back their points and don't need facts and studies, they are always right. When a person opposed to the mall say or give a common sense observation it has no validity because there is no study to go with it so we are wrong. Very funny you two.
JP
9:49 pm on Tuesday, March 20, 2012
You're not getting it Kevin. When I say use common sense I mean about all the imaginary fears people have. Stop Mall presents a massive traffic nightmare as if it's actually going to happen no matter what. They actually seem to believe what they are saying. Use common sense and say something reasonable, or come up with the facts to back it up. There isn't going to be 20,000 more cars coming into the area, but there won't just be 100 either.
Hank
8:07 pm on Sunday, March 18, 2012
This just in: "Stop the mall" can't really stop the mall.
"We were just foollin" said an undisclosed source.More on this later
Gottardo DiGiacopo
8:18 pm on Sunday, March 18, 2012
Just go to stopmahwahmall.com and click on: "Reality vs Developer's Promises"... there's nothing untrue there; we stand by it 100%. add in your own common sense and make up your own minds. hopefully we'll see you at the next town meetings; your voice does count and it is heard if you show up.
Hank
8:58 pm on Sunday, March 18, 2012
I had no idea. They are not going to build a mall after all. My mistake. Btw Costco has the best roast beef.
Kevin
11:12 am on Monday, March 19, 2012
Hank that is not your first mistake and will not be your last, it is ok. The crossroads site is a joke, a dog and pony show. I sent them an e-mail after I visited it to gather more information about what they are planing on building. I sent the e-mail with some questions and then never sent a response. So much for a two way conversation and them wanting to educate the public. They cant respond to an e-mail then I would think they really do not care about any concerns of the residents.
JP
9:43 pm on Tuesday, March 20, 2012
You're right, they don't care.
JP
9:56 pm on Tuesday, March 20, 2012
(about your letter)
Kevin
12:39 pm on Thursday, March 22, 2012
Yes JP it is going to happen and that is the problem. As I stated the owner really does not care about the residents of Mahwah and has shown that over and over again by sending his rude lawyer to each meeting. My concern is of two things. 1.When the mall is built and the problems are far worst then anticipated does Mahwah have a legal leg to stand on to force the owner to make the corrections. The owner will say we already did it and gave money to correct it. Fixing roads is fine but what about traffic flow from NY those roads will not be changed hence the problem not going away. 2. Members of the council, Mr. Roth to be exact said service calls "could go up" They will and if they go up a lot which what will the council do to correct the problem. It might be a drain on services or not.
Kevin
12:43 pm on Thursday, March 22, 2012
If it is what is the contingency plan. Have a legal option and a plan to correct problems.
On a side note I have children and on a Saturday afternoon I really do not want to fight traffic to get to a ball field in the far corners of the mall. That JP is a joke. Retail there is fine not a mall. I am tired of hearing it is like Tice Farms. Tice is 120,000 and does not have a movie theater. It is not the same.
JP
12:27 am on Friday, March 23, 2012
One of us is right Kevin. I don't think it's going to be you. We've had these situations before with the same type of complaints like Home Depot and Pilot, and nothing happened. People seem to want to B and moan over a lot of things that just don't come to pass. Why is that? Why do you and Stop Mall seem to know better then the hundreds of people developing this site for a large Tice Corners type of mall?
Gottardo DiGiacopo
6:52 am on Friday, March 23, 2012
The land was rezoned in spite of Mahwah's Mater Plan, and to suit the interests of one land-owner; that's what's WRONG!
JP
12:09 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
Yeah and? Did you see a mass of people lining up over the last 20 years to build anything else there? I didn't. This town has to do what it must to allow private property owners to develop their land and create new rateables, new cash flow, and new jobs for the town and surrounding area.
Hank
7:42 am on Friday, March 23, 2012
It's a question of safety. Paramus crime rate is 8 times higher than Mahwah. You will be 8 times safer at Crossroads.
Kevin
11:06 am on Friday, March 23, 2012
JP that is true and those places are safer because residents went to council meetings and planing board meetings to let our elected members know of the concerns residents have. Same thing here. As you agreed the property owner and builder really do not care and if not for residents coming out to state their concerns they would do whatever they want and stick Mahwah with the headache that will be the mall. I do not know better but I do know there will be issues that need to be addressed now to the builder and to our elected members so Mahwah has a plan to resolve these problems from somewhat manipulated studies. If it is 4 times larger then Tice Corners it is not Tice Corners. Also the traffic pattern coming into NJ from 87 is not addressed in the traffic corrections. If you drive it now you do not need to be an expert to know it will be problematic heading towards the 17S and 287S split. On any given day you can get run off the road by clueless drivers cutting across lanes to get to 287S usually (18 wheelers) tractor trailers.
JP
12:06 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
It is NOT four times as large Kevin, the parking spaces and parking garage take up 50% or more of that 600K sq footage. Check the schematic.
JP
12:10 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
BTW, that do not care comment was about YOUR LETTER, not about the town's people. Let's get the rhetoric straight here.
Andy Schmidt
1:30 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
JP, for what it's worth:
Crossroads Mall proposed RETAIL (rentable) space: 600,000 ft2.
Tice Corner RETAIL (rentable) space: 119,161 ft2.
In other words, if you take the developer's site plan, and add up the square footage of every proposed new RETAIL building (not the existing parking garage, etc.), THEN you end up at 600,000 ft2 (13.7 acres), which indeed is about 5 times the amount of Tice's Corner.
The *remaining* approx. 85 (I believe) acres include the parking lots(!), and streets and various other features.
Just want to make sure you are drawing your conclusions based on verifiable facts, not on some figures you conveniently made up in your head because they suited your argument.
JP
11:56 pm on Saturday, March 24, 2012
And if you actually would look at the specs, you would see that half of that IS intended for parking.
JP
12:20 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Andy, the whole Sheraton site is only 14 acres of development area for the mall.
Andy Schmidt
10:02 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
JP - my facts trump your imagination <G>.
"the whole Sheraton site is only 14 acres of development area for the mall"
You treat the developers' word as gospel. So - here is what THEY say about their OWN property (http://www.mahwahcrossroads.com/vote-yes.html ): "The proposed Crossroads Town Center development takes 100 acres"
Or you can take any published reports about the various public meetings, e.g., http://www.northjersey.com/topstories/mahwah/Mahwah_considers_rezoning_part_of_International_Crossroads_development.html ), and you would read "Crossroads Developers is asking the township to rezone 100 acres of the 140-acre site so that it can build 600,000 square feet of retail, 50,000 square feet of office space and a 100,000-square-foot hotel.".
Heck, if you knew some basic math, you could pull up Google Maps ( http://g.co/maps/9nwj8 ), ballpark the dimensions of the area (Sharp to highway, hightway to river, to be more than 2200 ft in each direction and convert that to approx. 100 acres. THAT is not an accurate figure of course, but it would help a person with average math skills to realize that your "14 acres" is completely off the charts.
Please respond by citing the specific source (e.g., the web address / URL of the page on the developers' site, township site (such as the minutes of meetings), or even mainstream news reports that state that the site is 14 acres?
Andy Schmidt
10:13 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
>> if you actually would look at the specs, you would see that half of that IS intended for parking <<
Half of what? Half of the 100 acres? I don't know that to be true or false - but I'm sure that they are planning for sufficient parking to support 600,000 sq ft of retail stores.
You had falsely stated:
>> parking garage take up 50% or more of that 600K sq footage<<
The developer has stated repeatedly that it is 600K of RETAIL space (unless you expect them to have a permanent flee market in the parking garage, let me educate you that a parking garage is NOT considered RETAIL space.)
The completely site plan that shows EACH building, and the square footage for EACH building is available online. You can simply add up the figures of the RETAIL store building and verify that the developers calculator was working perfectly fine. Adding up all the stores is approx. 600,000 sq ft.
Please cite ONE official source that states that the development is 300,000 retail and 300,000 parking garage?
Obviously, you don't at all believe in the strength of your own argument, if you need to freely invent figures in your head to make youself believe in them - and try to convince others. If the BASIS if your opinion has been proven by public sources to be flawed and entirely made up - then your opinion is nothing more than fiction.
JP
3:01 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Here's the breakdown Andy. 600K sq ft is almost 14 acres. 14 acres is 10% of the total Sheraton acreage of 140 acres. If you add in the existing structures already there (like the hotel and parking garage), you still have less then 50% of the total SURFACE area utilized. It is quite obvious from the developers layout that this "mall" is still quite open spaced and spread out. It's not enclosed like PP mall so it does not have the same impact despite it's sq footage. It has both the look and feel of a pedestrian walking mall. Very upscale looking. Nicer then Tice. Not sure what is so hard to understand, or visualize about that.
Mahwah Resident
12:01 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
I agree with you Kevin 100%. JP, how can you compare Tice Corner with Crossroads????? The extrance for Tice Corner is Chestnut Ridge Road (lovely country road in Woodcliff Lake) vs ROUTE 17 extrance???????? This is a no brainer!!!
JP
12:05 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
Yeah and? So what. Route 17 makes it an even more convenient method of getting to a mall. THAT'S a no brainer!!!!!
Andy Schmidt
1:42 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
A fair comparison would be the 767,000 ft2 Paramus Park mall - which has access to Rt 17 by means of a DEDICATED access ramp, in additon has access to Rt 17 through the Midland Avenue exit in the south and Ridgewood Avenue exit north. It further has local access from two major through streets (Ridgewood and Midland Avenues).
So - you have the combined traffic for the Paramus Mall, which currently is disbursed via 3 highway access points plus 2 major through streets - and for the Crossroads are squeezing this through a single access point.
Whether you consider this a potential problem or not is up to you - but I do believe it explains why some people are not readily dimissing that this COULD be an area of concern.
Hank
6:22 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
can't see how Parumus Park comparison is much use. It connects with other retail space. Hundreds of thousands of additional sq ft. How do you expect someone to ignore that. eg how many sq ft of retail within 1 mile of Paramus Park vs how much retail within a mile of Crossroads. The Mahwah mall is a mall in the middle of nowhere. The exit sign will say "to THE mall" an the exit will go to ONE mall. How is that going to be a problem.
JP
12:03 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
If there's a traffic problem, you fix the traffic problem. You don't complain about non-existing traffic caused by a mall that doesn't even exist yet. That's ludicrous and presumptuous. The traffic expert says it's no problem. Are you a traffic expert Andy?
Andy Schmidt
10:17 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
>> Are you a traffic expert Andy <<
Absolutely not!
I am simply an skeptical about any hired gun giving the estimates that support the project they are intended to support. It's entirely possible that my worries turn out to be unnecessary - but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to those worries?
>> If there's a traffic problem, you fix the traffic problem. You don't complain about non-existing traffic caused by a mall that doesn't even exist yet <<
You don't fix a problem AFTER it has been (literally) set in stone (e.g., AFTER it's been build), you try to identify problems AHEAD of time so that they can be PLANNED for and accomodated.
JP
3:29 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
You (collectively) absolutely - do not - have a right to act upon those worries IF you as an non-impacted third party have a negative result acting upon private property development which caused them a loss in funds or revenue (ala Stop The Mahwah Mall). That's what law suits are all about Andy, and that's what I want prevented in this project. I don't want ANY of my tax money going to either defend or initiate as complainant a "stop mall" cause I don't believe in, is destined to fail, and has only emotional rhetoric as a basis for the suit. If the mall is going to be built, get in line and help make it the best it can be by supporting it and eliminating any trouble spots. Don't just say I don't want the mall at all.
Kevin
9:33 am on Saturday, March 24, 2012
Wow I can not believe this. The biggest traffic problem is going to be the drivers heading south into Mahwah to access the mall who have to head back over 17 to get to it. There is no drawing or plans to fix the 17s 287s split. It will be a nightmare. JP you are just plan flat out wrong no matter how you want to cut your numbers it is 4 times larger 120,000 sg ft to 600,000 sg ft. There will be no comparison of traffic when it comes to what Tice Corners does and what this mall will bring. None. As I said before I attempted to gather information from the crossroads web site and they never had the class to respond. They really do not care and we the residents will have to live with this mess. Retail is fine a mall is not.
JP
11:53 pm on Saturday, March 24, 2012
No Kevin, you are wrong.
Gottardo DiGiacopo
10:31 am on Saturday, March 24, 2012
WOW, i had no idea that JP kept up his Tice Corners comparison because he really believed this mall would be that small and friendly. "Information Alert": it's the size of Paramus Park at first (with room for much more)!!!... Meanwhile Hank doesn't think the comparison to Paramus Park is legitimate. Hank is suggesting that all the shoppers going to Garden State, Bergen mall, and Riverside are driving thru Paramus Park to get to their ultimate destinations. and he asks "One Huge Mall, One Entrance, One Exit; How is that going to be a problem?"
JP
11:57 pm on Saturday, March 24, 2012
The comparison to Paramus Park isn't valid. Paramus Park is an enclosed mall. The comparison to Tice IS valid, because the type of environment (although it'll be much nicer in Mahwah) is what the site will look like. Upscale.
JP
3:05 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Gottardo, my comparison to Tice is NOT size, it's to style and quality. Mahwah will be even better. You'll see similar stores on the north side of this development as Tice.
Gottardo DiGiacopo
10:25 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
JP 12:20 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
"Andy, the whole Sheraton site is only 14 acres of development area for the mall."
Hank 6:22 pm on Friday, March 23, 2012
"can't see how Parumus Park comparison is much use."
These guys are absolutely delirious... and rather than admit they are insanely wrong about the facts, they just keep insisting the proposed mall is one seventh of its actual size.
Between JP's ignis fatuus math, and Hank's love of eating roast beef with his own feet, our protest is becoming much clearer! Cue music: The Itchy & Scratchy Show.
JP
3:34 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
It's not 1/7th of the site it's less, 1/10th! 14 acres out of 140. The rest is parking and open space. Just shows how much you have this mall project blown out of proportion.
JP
3:39 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
BTW Gottardo, if you really look at the plan, I mean look at it well and study it, measure it if you have to, you would see that the actual buildings if physically lumped together in one big pile, would actually all fit within the circle area in front of the Sheraton. There is tons of open space in this project. This site is not going to look imposing like an enclosed mall at all. It's very open.
Kevin
10:32 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
JP the only one wrong here is you. Please 120,000 and 600,000 it is not the same. Even a pro mall supporter would see the holes in your statements. Maybe the look is the same but that is it. News flash for you because you are late to the party It is a mall they are building. Now that you now know this information you should use your self proclaimed logic and see this for what it is worth. A mall.
JP
3:13 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
It's not a mall. It's not enclosed, it's not anything detremental you think it is going to be, and you need to look at the developers website and swallow a dose of reality Kevin. It will be Tice like. Bigger and even better then Tice.
Hank
10:45 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
the entire McArthur Blvd/ Ridge Rd ,Condo, Office Complex has one major access point on 17 and it seems to do well traffic wise. It also links most of Mahwah and Ramsey residential areas as well as downtown Ramsey. A simple single exit with a light linking thousand of cars and trucks daily. No big deal.
side roads Darlington, Campgaw no problem
Ramapo College: 6000 students in a complex with two entrances on a two lane road
I see no traffic
No traffic on 202,Campgaw or major backups at 202 /17 exit
Intestate/Ramsey Square.....no traffic
Crossroads......the world is coming to an end
Gottardo DiGiacopo
11:22 am on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Hank (aka Scratchy), traffic is only one of many many cultural, political, enviornmental, humanistic, behavioral and economic concerns. for most of us another mall selling cheap disposable shit from elsewhere is a failed model... and an unfortunate addition to a town that has held itself above the fraudulent comforts and false economic benefits of herd shopping.
Hank
1:02 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
I had my squelch down could you say that again?
JP
3:12 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
GD, that's exactly the type of talk that turns the town council and developers from listening to anything anyone like you has to say, because you have no idea what the hell you are talking about and just ranting about bullsh*t.
Q
1:16 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Jp - I wish you were correct, then the issue would be minimized. It is evident you have not been to the developers presentations that began January. They are reviewing the entire package they dropped off the day before it zoned back to business, from retail. He is unveiling the plan page by page - study by study. The town will then begin their findings. It is not a Tice Mall- and it is not upscale- unless Target, Costco, and discount dollar stores are a poppin step up rto your usual hangouts. This is all through the developers admissions. Please come to the next meeting on April 9th and ask anything you want.
Hank
1:51 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Q fyi Costco salaries:
Cashier: $8 to $15.50 per hour
Stocker: $9 to $20 per hour
Food Service: $9 to $16.50 per hour
Butcher: $10 to $25 per hour
Cake Decorator: $9.50 to $18.50 per hour
Truck Driver: $11.50 to $22.50 per hour
Wholesale and Manufacturing Sales Representative: $11 to $25 per hour
Pharmacy Technician: $11.50 to $21 per hour
Optician: $11 to $26 per hour
Warehouse Supervisor: $14 to $26.50 per hour
Front End Supervisor: $13 to $29 per hour
+ Benefits
JP
2:53 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Q, there's an Apple store looking to go in there. What's more upscale then that? They don't open just anywhere. They do research on the clientele in the surrounding area before they commit to a store. Did you notice the one at Tice Corners?
Hank
5:09 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Stag hill Rd traffic?The mall will actually be a boom to Ramapo Brae complex. You can walk to work or shop or maybe even have a shuttle. It's a home run.
Q
5:18 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
JP you are the funniest ever! You spoof everyone with secret for facts not yet published, that the developer’s representative denies knowing. I know who you are - the developer!! But this isn’t Appalachia - Apple is a great stock- but not an upscale store. Unless you think an iPhone, Mac or iPad is a rare treat? It's the same common commodity sold in almost any town, web, or micro center everywhere. You had my hopes up Mahwah’s direction of a Hackensack/Little Ferry model over a Saddle River/Allendale model was going to be real upscale living! Back to the drawing board or Yawn... as some say. Ps since you think and $8/hr job you can walk to is a step up it says a lot - and I think you are insulting to Stag Hill residents. They can work there so you can shop there?
Gottardo DiGiacopo
6:09 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Very well said neighbor. as if all shoppers are gonna be grinning with blissful surprise at the never-before-seen quality, variety, and economy at our new giant mall... all while the new employees are skipping home with similar smiles having saved thier mortgages bringing home $350/40hr. week to $450/40hr. week at Costco.
Hank
8:02 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
So why would you look down on someone making less than you?
$400 extra a week is a medical plan, car payment and actually could be a mortgage payment.
I am not insulting anyone. Not everyone in Mahwah has a mortgage. For 2 people to work requires 2 good running cars that get good mileage. A husband and wife within a mile or so of their workplace and making 12 dollars an hour are bringing home 24 dollars an hour and no commute.
I just pointed out Costco averages $17 per hour (husband wife means 34 per hour!) and Wegman's is the #4 best employer in the country. The business man mayor should already have these good companies on speed dial.
JP
11:28 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Your blatant bigotry is showing Gottardo. It's offensive.
Gottardo DiGiacopo
6:00 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
JP, how cutely you try to disguise your gaffe. we all know that stores come with parking lots!!! i'm acutely aware of the size of the buildings as well as the whole property, and i am intimately familiar with the plans submitted to the town of mahwah by the developer (in fact i've been to all but one of their presentations). this mall is very close to Paramus Park in size; i've never been confused about that.
And i'll repeat, several of our town council members (still in need of being unseated) had no right to disregard the Master Plan of our town, to disregard our planning board, and to disregard the will of mahwah's citizens by rezoning 100 acres of land to retail/mall use; it's that simple for me and a lot of other people in this town. i know you and hank don't agree, and so i'm expecting 4,000 more badly constructed words.
Cue Music.
JP
11:25 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Why? because your words are THE words we must all follow Gottardo? You ever think that most people think the council and mayor are doing a great job for our town? How dare you insult the people we voted in to represent us. How dare you.
Gottardo DiGiacopo
8:54 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
maybe discussing this mall is unrealistic without it branching out into tangents like structural misalignments btw much of americas workforce and our newest economies. these are all complicated issues that require the 'lumpers' to listen to the 'splitters' and visa-versa. WTS, it saddens me to imagine two people working fulltime to afford only rent but no decent car, no vacations, no retrirement, no children. i'm not saying that any mall caused this kind of situation, but i am saying that siphoning these few dozen jobs from the people relying on them at neighboring malls is not for me a reason to be for Crossroads Mall, and in fact strengthens my opposition to it. there are plenty of them around and this mall will adversely impact the homes & businesses in its vicinity, as well as the soul of Mahwah.
JP
11:30 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
That statement right there is just unadulterated BS!
Hank
7:21 am on Monday, March 26, 2012
bartender I'll have what he's havin
Mahwah Resident
9:48 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
Hey JP, I agree with Q you are the developer or someone hired by the developer to respond to the Patch comments, which is fraud by the way. I don't believe a word you say you are full a s***. I delete your comments as fast as you type them. Please go away and in the long run I hope you loose and something else like office space with real jobs gets built. The Patch should look to see about JP being hired by the developer. NO MALL NO MALL
JP
11:34 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
I'm just a Mahwah resident like you Mahwah Resident. You can spout no mall all you want. It's falling on deft ears now because you just look silly (and monotonous) doing it.
Lower Taxes
9:27 am on Sunday, April 29, 2012
When the Palisades mall opened, business at the Nanuet mall collapsed. I went to the Palisades mall the other day and business is way down with this economy. With such limited number of stores would it not be safe to assume that there will be very little business at a new mall in Mahwah, and bankrupsies in its future? I suspect that greed is crowding good sense out of the developer's mind. Who's money is he risking in this questionable venture? I understand that the original developers are already bankrupt.
Hank
4:31 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
they are knocking down the Nanuet mall and................................
http://nanuet.patch.com/articles/final-approval-passes-for-shops-at-nanuet